Chris Harris on GR Yaris and Supra.

[BA9092]

No contest on the price point. If Toyota built the Supra from the ground up, it would have been LC-500 price range and then some. They compromised with BMW and this is the result. Like I said, it is what it is and is. Chris Harris is telling it how it is (that it's predominantly BMW) and you seem to be upset at that.

The Yaris is a turd and a half and it's available on their lineup. Toyota GR took that turd and polished it.

Upset? Hardly. Lol. This is all about fun banter, learning and sharing.

I like Chris Harris.

As I see it, the Supra is a good kind of compromise though. As Chris Harris sees it, it's a bad compromise. I acknowledge where he's coming from but it's nothing new. He doesn't like the Supra and criticized it heavily for being a BMW. Anyone who hasn't been living under a rock knows the A90 is mostly a BMW. I just thought it was a cheap shot that he actually posted that on Twitter.

I've taken most automotive critics with a grain of salt. I grew up with only Motor Trend, Car & Driver and Road & Track magazines to read about cars. Nowadays, anyone with a YouTube channel or a Twitter account is suddenly an automotive expert. Lol.

We all know there are countless articles, videos and reviews about the A90 Supra being this BMW/Toyota "Frankenstein", untrue to its heritage. Some praise BMW/Toyota product while some despise it, as with any car.

On an avgeek related tangent - the Concorde supersonic airliner was successful because it was a joint venture between the French and the British. The Americans never got their Boeing 2707 off the ground as result. Food for thought?

The BMW/Toyota Supra...Well, to paraphrase Martha Stewart, "It's a good thing." ?

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[j50gt]

https://www.motor1.com/news/454964/chris-harris-criticizes-supra-gr-yaris/

The Yaris GR is built on an existing platform, that will sell by the millions, literally. Comparing that to building an entirely new platform that they'll only sell tens of thousands of over the whole life of the car? The development costs have to be amortized, kind of hard to do that when nobody buys sports cars anymore. Has to be the most disingenuous argument I've ever heard from Harris.

 

[Bflood]

You want real entertainment, check out the twitter comments. I'm obviously biased but it's just unreal the hate out there on this car..

 

[DesmoSD]

It's a shame about the NSX, I would love one of those but not at that price point. There's a local person who owns one, I see it driving around every so often.

+1 Once you see one driving, it looks like no other car on the road. A timeless design that looks very exotic.

 

[puzzled]

You want real entertainment, check out the twitter comments. I'm obviously biased but it's just unreal the hate out there on this car..

I think if the car was cheaper poorer folks won't be so nasty.
They're just jealous because a $50K car feels reachable, but yet unachievable for them making it an itch that really annoys.

Rich folks could care less about a Supra and probably respects the car for what it is.

 

[DesmoSD]

Upset? Hardly. Lol. This is all about fun banter, learning and sharing.

I like Chris Harris.

As I see it, the Supra is a good kind of compromise though. As Chris Harris sees it, it's a bad compromise. I acknowledge where he's coming from but it's nothing new. He doesn't like the Supra and criticized it heavily for being a BMW. Anyone who hasn't been living under a rock knows the A90 is mostly a BMW. I just thought it was a cheap shot that he actually posted that on Twitter.

I've taken most automotive critics with a grain of salt. I grew up with only Motor Trend, Car & Driver and Road & Track magazines to read about cars. Nowadays, anyone with a YouTube channel or a Twitter account is suddenly an automotive expert. Lol.

We all know there are countless articles, videos and reviews about the A90 Supra being this BMW/Toyota "Frankenstein", untrue to its heritage. Some praise BMW/Toyota product while some despise it, as with any car.

On an avgeek related tangent - the Concorde supersonic airliner was successful because it was a joint venture between the French and the British. The Americans never got their Boeing 2707 off the ground as result. Food for thought?

The BMW/Toyota Supra...Well, to paraphrase Martha Stewart, "It's a good thing." ?

Yeah, you sounded pissed. ? j/k

I see it more of Chris Harris' level as being a bad compromise but I do see the good compromise.

They used BMW parts from the entry level of BMW's, possible lower grade onto Toyota's top of the line car. The good compromise is that they pulled it off.

The Concorde was an aerospace marvel but the locals, maintenance, a crash and then 9/11 ultimately sealed it's fate. Let's see what the XB-1 tests has to offer.

 

[Ultimateone]

You want real entertainment, check out the twitter comments. I'm obviously biased but it's just unreal the hate out there on this car..

At this point I'm so tired of it and think it's lame to see it here and anywhere else online. (Also I always laugh at the BMW comments because I've owned 4 of them lol)

 

[BA9092]

Yeah, you sounded pissed. ? j/k

I see it more of Chris Harris' level as being a bad compromise but I do see the good compromise.

They used BMW parts from the entry level of BMW's, possible lower grade onto Toyota's top of the line car. The good compromise is that they pulled it off.

The Concorde was an aerospace marvel but the locals, maintenance, a crash and then 9/11 ultimately sealed it's fate. Let's see what the XB-1 tests has to offer.

OMG! I only now just saw your list of cars under your avatar - you still own that A80!? Lucky dog! ? I still have the original brochure and poster from that launch.

I get the entry level BMW parts. But BMW in itself is already an entry-level luxury brand. Although, my 2016 GTI did feel almost as luxurious as the Supra does though, so I'm with you on that. Lol. I'm sure Toyota and BMW could've made the Supra more M4 like if they were to climb further up the BMW ladder, but that would probably qualify it as a Lexus at that point and made it unattainable for some of us peons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read about the B58 engine when the Supra was still wet behind the years in early 2019. It's a reliable, relatively affordable, efficient, highly tunable motor. Is it not the best option for it at the moment?

A little side-note personal history: I loved the FT-1 concept. But when the A90 production model was revealed, I was less than impressed. The BMW part of it didn't scare me off as much as I thought it would. I DID, however, feel a bit put-off by the lack of a manual and a mere 14-hp increase from the A80 TT. It wasn't until I actually drove one - twice - that I felt I had to have one. The rest just grew on me. And coming from a supercharged BRZ, it's a heck of a car!

I miss the supersonic era. Concorde was a technological achievement, but a financial disaster - not a means of transport for the masses. Kinda like the LFA.

 

[Snorlax27]

I think if the car was cheaper poorer folks won't be so nasty.
They're just jealous because a $50K car feels reachable, but yet unachievable for them making it an itch that really annoys.

Rich folks could care less about a Supra and probably respects the car for what it is.

This is actually pretty funny because there’s plenty of truth behind it.

If it were priced any higher, people would complain it is unattainable. The last model of the MKIV MSRPd at $39k, adjusted for inflation, $63-64k. A good chunk of money more than what the MKV is currently priced at.

We are all car enthusiasts but we are not multi billion dollar auto manufacturers. Some cars would never be made without joint ventures (86/ Supra). If a company can still make profit without taking much risk, then they will almost always choose that option.

The car community is fickle. They complain when no sports cars are made and critique harshly when they are made and they don’t meet their expectations. Everyone should just be happy that there are options to choose from.

 

[SuupYota]

You want real entertainment, check out the twitter comments. I'm obviously biased but it's just unreal the hate out there on this car..

Oh totally. I've driven around town and had 2 people shout "BMW!" as I passed. Um ok. More funny, it was from someone on a SKATEBOARD and someone in a 350 Z with the front bumper hanging rofl.

BUT, I've also had too many to list, people go bonkers over the Supra with compliments, waves, thumbs ups and "Hell yea, SUPRA!"

 

[puzzled]

This is actually pretty funny because there’s plenty of truth behind it.

If it were priced any higher, people would complain it is unattainable. The last model of the MKIV MSRPd at $39k, adjusted for inflation, $63-64k. A good chunk of money more than what the MKV is currently priced at.

We are all car enthusiasts but we are not multi billion dollar auto manufacturers. Some cars would never be made without joint ventures (86/ Supra). If a company can still make profit without taking much risk, then they will almost always choose that option.

The car community is fickle. They complain when no sports cars are made and critique harshly when they are made and they don’t meet their expectations. Everyone should just be happy that there are options to choose from.

Yeah, that was the word I was looking for earlier! I was like what the heck is that word that I'm trying to type at the tip of my fingers yet I can't remembERRRrrrrstupidcovid..!

You're definitely right about the car community. It's made up of mostly complainers (that can't even comfortably afford the car they're complaining about as if their comments carry weight). I'm very happy Toyota and BMW brought us the Supra.

 

[DesmoSD]

OMG! I only now just saw your list of cars under your avatar - you still own that A80!? Lucky dog! ? I still have the original brochure and poster from that launch.

I get the entry level BMW parts. But BMW in itself is already an entry-level luxury brand. Although, my 2016 GTI did feel almost as luxurious as the Supra does though, so I'm with you on that. Lol. I'm sure Toyota and BMW could've made the Supra more M4 like if they were to climb further up the BMW ladder, but that would probably qualify it as a Lexus at that point and made it unattainable for some of us peons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read about the B58 engine when the Supra was still wet behind the years in early 2019. It's a reliable, relatively affordable, efficient, highly tunable motor. Is it not the best option for it at the moment?

A little side-note personal history: I loved the FT-1 concept. But when the A90 production model was revealed, I was less than impressed. The BMW part of it didn't scare me off as much as I thought it would. I DID, however, feel a bit put-off by the lack of a manual and a mere 14-hp increase from the A80 TT. It wasn't until I actually drove one - twice - that I felt I had to have one. The rest just grew on me. And coming from a supercharged BRZ, it's a heck of a car!

I miss the supersonic era. Concorde was a technological achievement, but a financial disaster - not a means of transport for the masses. Kinda like the LFA.

I have the MKIV brochure (and all of the 90's Japanese cars of that era) tucked away somewhere in my garage as well as the original MSRP sticker. Being in middle school-high school when those cars were in production was pretty awesome. Going to each Japanese dealership to see ropes around each of their halo cars was a sight for sore eyes.

I loved the FT-1 too and saw both of them in person, the red one at Irvine Cars n Coffee and the gun metal gray one at Pebble Beach in 2014. The FT-1 next to the MKIV at the famous Irvine Cars and Coffee looked like the perfect successor. Similar to how the SC/Supra to the LC/Supra lineage.

Now back to the MKV, unfortunately it had to be scaled down because of the shared chassis with the Z4. That's why proportions look off and the shorter wheelbase came into play. IMO, BMW has a nifty way to faux luxury. Compared to pre 2K, BMW's were less luxurious. When they started to make them more luxurious, that's when things started to break more easier. IMO, if BMW supplied the just the B58 to Toyota and let Toyota build the rest, similar to the Morgan Plus situation, it would have been a lot better.

I've test driven a MKV once this past summer during Covid. The salesman handed me the keys and told me to come back when the gas light comes on, (it was a 1/4). I was able to rip on the car for a good 45 mins. It was really cool because I was able to get accustomed to the car. Unfortunately, I wasn't wow'd by it. I'll be honest, my 911 has set the bar pretty high when it comes to good sports car.

 

[trakday]

Chris Harris is right, spot on about the Supra. He's a phenomenal driver and journalist. The Supra is a great, fun street car...but at the limit, its a disappointment. When i say at the "limit" i mean on the track, Road Coarse......NOT 1/4 Mile !
I drive at the limit, beyond the limit of the Supra, so does Chris Harris. What do you expect for a car in this price bracket? Not much....just a fun street car.

 

[BA9092]

I have the MKIV brochure (and all of the 90's Japanese cars of that era) tucked away somewhere in my garage as well as the original MSRP sticker. Being in middle school-high school when those cars were in production was pretty awesome. Going to each Japanese dealership to see ropes around each of their halo cars was a sight for sore eyes.

I loved the FT-1 too and saw both of them in person, the red one at Irvine Cars n Coffee and the gun metal gray one at Pebble Beach in 2014. The FT-1 next to the MKIV at the famous Irvine Cars and Coffee looked like the perfect successor. Similar to how the SC/Supra to the LC/Supra lineage.

Now back to the MKV, unfortunately it had to be scaled down because of the shared chassis with the Z4. That's why proportions look off and the shorter wheelbase came into play. IMO, BMW has a nifty way to faux luxury. Compared to pre 2K, BMW's were less luxurious. When they started to make them more luxurious, that's when things started to break more easier. IMO, if BMW supplied the just the B58 to Toyota and let Toyota build the rest, similar to the Morgan Plus situation, it would have been a lot better.

I've test driven a MKV once this past summer during Covid. The salesman handed me the keys and told me to come back when the gas light comes on, (it was a 1/4). I was able to rip on the car for a good 45 mins. It was really cool because I was able to get accustomed to the car. Unfortunately, I wasn't wow'd by it. I'll be honest, my 911 has set the bar pretty high when it comes to good sports car.

Yeah, JDM had a great presence in the 90's. I really miss it. The 3000GT-VR4, 300ZX TT, RX7, MR2, Supra and my favorite, the NSX.

Now the 3000GT is history. The new 400Z seems like it would cut juts slightly under the Supra from the specs we've seen so far. I'm sure Toyota will up the ante with a competing Supra variant or trim once the new Z arrives. Sadly, no future for the RX7 or the MR2.

The NSX has gone in a completely different direction. Maybe if Acura would've taken the simplicity and lightweight characteristics of the S2000 and made it just a slightly luxury mid-engine coupe at half it's current price, it would've been more successful.

I've never seen an FT-1 in person. I can see why they'd have to compromise the design if it were to be built on the Z4. If only BMW would bring back the Z8 - now that was a gorgeous BMW.

I was wow'd by the Supra by coming from a BRZ. It's hard to be wow'd by anything under $100K especially when you've owned a 911.

 

[DesmoSD]

Yeah, JDM had a great presence in the 90's. I really miss it. The 3000GT-VR4, 300ZX TT, RX7, MR2, Supra and my favorite, the NSX.

Now the 3000GT is history. The new 400Z seems like it would cut juts slightly under the Supra from the specs we've seen so far. I'm sure Toyota will up the ante with a competing Supra variant or trim once the new Z arrives. Sadly, no future for the RX7 or the MR2.

The NSX has gone in a completely different direction. Maybe if Acura would've taken the simplicity and lightweight characteristics of the S2000 and made it just a slightly luxury mid-engine coupe at half it's current price, it would've been more successful.

I've never seen an FT-1 in person. I can see why they'd have to compromise the design if it were to be built on the Z4. If only BMW would bring back the Z8 - now that was a gorgeous BMW.

I was wow'd by the Supra by coming from a BRZ. It's hard to be wow'd by anything under $100K especially when you've owned a 911.

In a more perfect world, I'd like see all of the JDM legends return with updated/throwback looks, similar specs but with a more power, more analog interior and an great emphasis on lightweight. I know the NHTSA and EPA restricts won't allow for certain 90's designs (MKIV Supra and NSX NA1/NA2 low dashboards, thin A pillars, lower swooping front bumpers) to become possible but I like what Nissan is doing with the 400Z. I like the simplicity of the interior but the exterior can be take some getting used to. I like how they are going with a more simple approach and hopefully this will kickstart Toyota.

You'd be surprised that 911's can be had for less then a MKV Supra. It's a whole different driving feel.

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