Death of ICE cars

White Shadow

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Not sure what research you've done, but I seriously doubt it factored in the coincidentally legislated reduction in legacy production if that was the conclusion.
It's all about "clean" energy. The idea is to take advantage of solar, wind, and batteries to eventually eliminate the need for "dirty" electricity. It seems that the goal is to get there by 2035 and there are some studies suggest that it's an attainable goal. But I guess time will tell. The wheels are already in motion.

Either way, the push to electrification will absolutely require infrastructure considerations.
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digicidal

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With more taxes - big government can solve all of our problems @digicidal. You just need to be an obedient trusting citizen. They know what’s best for all of us and will spend our tax dollars wisely. I’m sure they‘ve thought this all out 😜
Yes, as someone who works in the private sector (as a contractor for a public agency) - I can say that I trust them completely to know what's best. They're all multi-disciplinary geniuses... and definitely not just warming seats until their pension is ready. ;)

When doing interviews, someone with no certifications or degree but a few years practical experience is definitely worth consideration. On the other hand, the applicant with a masters in CS and 10 technical certifications (but no real-world experience) isn't just not worth considering... it's best to have them escorted from the building by security. :p

It's all about "clean" energy. The idea is to take advantage of solar, wind, and batteries to eventually eliminate the need for "dirty" electricity. It seems that the goal is to get there by 2035 and there are some studies suggest that it's an attainable goal. But I guess time will tell. The wheels are already in motion.

Either way, the push to electrification will absolutely require infrastructure considerations.
Too bad our ability to make significant inroads in renewables is almost 100% dependent on production methods which pollute as much (if not more than) the fossil fuels for energy production today. Luckily China can provide all of it - while strip-mining Africa and producing far more carbon emissions than the west in order to do it.
 
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Yes, as someone who works in the private sector (as a contractor for a public agency) - I can say that I trust them completely to know what's best. They're all multi-disciplinary geniuses... and definitely not just warming seats until their pension is ready. ;)

When doing interviews, someone with no certifications or degree but a few years practical experience is definitely worth consideration. On the other hand, the applicant with a masters in CS and 10 technical certifications (but no real-world experience) isn't just not worth considering... it's best to have them escorted from the building by security. :p



Too bad our ability to make significant inroads in renewables is almost 100% dependent on production methods which pollute as much (if not more than) the fossil fuels for energy production today. Luckily China can provide all of it - while strip-mining Africa and producing far more carbon emissions than the west in order to do it.
And to think you were just venting in your original post... That was so well said 👏! Real people with real world experience, driven by a free market economy. Amazing what can happen in that environment. We go from horse and buggy, to railroad, to automobiles, to even Elon Musk making his own EV company (and spaceship) all while not being forced to do so😱. Russia and China should be way ahead of us by now if governments could solve every problem better than their own people. 🤷‍♂️

Is my ICE car really that bad that it needs to be banned???
 

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And to think you were just venting in your original post... That was so well said 👏! Real people with real world experience, driven by a free market economy. Amazing what can happen in that environment. We go from horse and buggy, to railroad, to automobiles, to even Elon Musk making his own EV company (and spaceship) all while not being forced to do so😱. Russia and China should be way ahead of us by now if governments could solve every problem better than their own people. 🤷‍♂️

Is my ICE car really that bad that it needs to be banned???
To be fair, the private sector also tends to be blind to the lasting effects of their actions as well as considering shareholder profits above all. Ultimately the problem is that while environmental, manufacturing, energy, and even social issues are global by both scope and impact - government solutions are local (or voluntarily global... which might as well not exist at all).

It's pretty ironic that if we restrict fossil fuels too much (and too soon) we'll actually have to rely on significant global warming to keep millions from dying from the cold and from famine due to decreased food production. Luckily, we in the west don't care about anyone in the third world, so we'll just blindly follow whatever the private-jet-driving-douche-canoes tell us to do... without questioning any of the data. :rolleyes:
 
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To be fair, the private sector also tends to be blind to the lasting effects of their actions as well as considering shareholder profits above all. Ultimately the problem is that while environmental, manufacturing, energy, and even social issues are global by both scope and impact - government solutions are local (or voluntarily global... which might as well not exist at all).

It's pretty ironic that if we restrict fossil fuels too much (and too soon) we'll actually have to rely on significant global warming to keep millions from dying from the cold and from famine due to decreased food production. Luckily, we in the west don't care about anyone in the third world, so we'll just blindly follow whatever the private-jet-driving-douche-canoes tell us to do... without questioning any of the data. :rolleyes:
Funny you say that! Wood consumption and burning are steadily increasing globally. It’s definitely not the jet setters that have to worry to stay warm or afford an electric vehicle. But they sure do like to push their policies on others with very little thought on the bigger impact right now. The biggest the cost of mandating what “feels good”, imo, would be becoming fully dependent on others for our transportation or energy needs.
 

White Shadow

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It's pretty ironic that if we restrict fossil fuels too much (and too soon) we'll actually have to rely on significant global warming to keep millions from dying from the cold....
What does that mean?
 
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White Shadow

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Can't speak for @digicidal but there are tons of reports that the war on petrol will not only affect us car enthusiast but also people who need it in colder areas. Sample article today using duckduckgo non bias search engine:

Remote Scots May Freeze or Starve to Death Due to Energy Costs, Group Warns (newsweek.com)
I guess I'm not really understanding the issue here. I didn't think there's any real war on petrol. I think the idea is to swing towards so called clean energy. Yes, electric cars are probably the biggest focus today, but if you think about it, that should make oil based fuels more abundant and ultimately less costly, no?

I mean, nobody is even trying to shut down fossil fuels at this point. We'll never see that in our lifetimes. But if the governments of the world can push the adoption of electric cars (through incentivizing them), then I guess that helps all around to some extent.

Every time I see a Tesla on the road, I think to myself 'good, less gas used by that guy, so keep it up and gas should get cheaper'

And some day I'm quite sure that I'll be in an EV myself, but for now I want to enjoy my gas powered cars while I can. In my opinion, there's plenty of time to switch to electric and I'm sure they'll be much better than they are now. I don't need to be an early adopter, that's for sure.
 

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(*Note that as far as I know, if you wanted to, there is nothing stopping anyone from taking, say, even a 1960 Cadillac Coupe De Ville that's been EV converted and driving THAT around in an EV-only zone.)
A speed shop owner buddy of mine has a fully-built 1986 Gran National, whos 600hp V6 turbo engine is nearing the end of its life. Instead of building that up again, he's wanting to make a dramatic departure, and looking into acquiring Model S Plaid powertrain components..

I think we're gonna see a ton of classic car retrofits like these in the next ten years.
 

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A speed shop owner buddy of mine has a fully-built 1986 Gran National, whos 600hp V6 turbo engine is nearing the end of its life. Instead of building that up again, he's wanting to make a dramatic departure, and looking into acquiring Model S Plaid powertrain components..

I think we're gonna see a ton of classic car retrofits like these in the next ten years.
In that case I hope he takes a look into the Tesla Model S complete *longitudinal* drive units available from Revolt Systems. Using a Model S stock transverse drive unit will require ripping out the original suspension and replacing it with a used-only (meaning you aren't allowed by Tesla to order brand new replacement parts from them) Tesla rear subframe and rear suspension.

Granted a GN G-body has a very 1960's era solid axle suspension design but it's part of the character of the car.

The only trouble with EV conversions to RWD front engine classics is that we really need more options out there that are more affordable which allow you to preserve the original driveline configuration. This is where Revolt comes in with their kits although they are pretty expensive. I got a quite from them myself a few months ago to run some numbers and realistically it's a $50k minimum drivetrain investment with more cost tacked on in all likelihood.

But... it's one of the best early longitudinal conversion drivelines and it's available right now. and it's way better than the EV "crate motors" that Ford and GM currently offer.... which absolutely do not "bolt in" to classic front engine/RWD cars at all. There will be more competition in the longitudinal EV driveline conversion space before long.

That all being said... with my 1960 Cadillac example I feel there is less uniqueness in the big V8 lump that it came with versus a 1986-1987 Buick Regal Grand National (and T-Type and GNX) which has one of the most iconic high performance turbocharged engines ever made. America's 2JZ if you will, being an incredibly tough factory boosted engine.

With those rare, original and extremely special edition high performance models of a more common body style car I've got more pause about converting them to an EV... although maybe it's just inevitable in the long run.

Nonetheless yes we are definitely going to see the trend of converting classic cars to EVs grow as the batteries improve, lose weight, gain in power density and come down in price and as the overall cost of all required major and minor components and control systems come down in price and become more democratized.
 

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Can't speak for @digicidal but there are tons of reports that the war on petrol will not only affect us car enthusiast but also people who need it in colder areas. Sample article today using duckduckgo non bias search engine:

Remote Scots May Freeze or Starve to Death Due to Energy Costs, Group Warns (newsweek.com)
This is a 2022 problem with current lithium-ion battery technology. Give it a few more years when that is the *old* tech on its way out giving way to far better battery chemistries and designs and this will no longer be an issue.

Even right now there is a patented process to allow lithium-ion vehicle batteries to take just a little of their own juice to maintain a minimum internal temperature in extremely cold climates so as to preserve function no matter how cold it gets. Due to the limitations of the chemistry tech it's got limited effectiveness since we all know lithium batteries lose a LOT of their charge in extreme cold conditions.

It's a really stopgap bandaid technology (if any manufacturer decides to license it) that will probably cease to be necessary when lithium-ion cells are a distant memory.

Battery cell technology is going to change dramatically on the commercial scale starting in 5-6 years and much more tremendously than that in 8-10 years. By the 2035 timeframe the EV batteries of today will rightly seem like expensive and inferior garbage to us.
 

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What does that mean?
That between the reduction in domestic production throughout the EU and NA areas due to climate initiatives, the even larger reduction in availability (and related costs) of sanctioning Putin and removing those imports - that there will be fairly widespread shortages of not only gasoline and natural gas but also cooking/heating oils. Not to mention those now incapable of affording what is available.

When you couple that with a nearly identical situation in agriculture (which was already bad due to COVID impacts)... and we're gonna see some crazy shit in the next two years. There's riots all over the EU and NA as well due to the restrictions on modern fertilization and harvesting which are also heavily dependent on fossil fuels.

Obviously there are thousands of other articles and experts, but I tried to pull selections mostly from more "left-leaning" to "unbiased" sources for the most part. Naturally, if you read articles from sources opposed to climate initiatives themselves they will be much more critical... but these are from sources mostly in favor of the very reductions and sanctions themselves - they simply have to admit what the repercussions will be. :confused:

If we had significant global warming in the next two years... like an order of magnitude greater than we've experienced over the past 20 - then there would be an increase in arable land in the direction of the poles and an expanded harvesting cycle. Naturally that wouldn't be a win-win situation (millions would die from other reasons - especially due to flooding and storms) but the deaths from exposure to cold and hunger would be partially mitigated.
 
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That between the reduction in domestic production throughout the EU and NA areas due to climate initiatives, the even larger reduction in availability (and related costs) of sanctioning Putin and removing those imports - that there will be fairly widespread shortages of not only gasoline and natural gas but also cooking/heating oils. Not to mention those now incapable of affording what is available.

When you couple that with a nearly identical situation in agriculture (which was already bad due to COVID impacts)... and we're gonna see some crazy shit in the next two years. There's riots all over the EU and NA as well due to the restrictions on modern fertilization and harvesting which are also heavily dependent on fossil fuels.

Obviously there are thousands of other articles and experts, but I tried to pull selections mostly from more "left-leaning" to "unbiased" sources for the most part. Naturally, if you read articles from sources opposed to climate initiatives themselves they will be much more critical... but these are from sources mostly in favor of the very reductions and sanctions themselves - they simply have to admit what the repercussions will be. :confused:

If we had significant global warming in the next two years... like an order of magnitude greater than we've experienced over the past 20 - then there would be an increase in arable land in the direction of the poles and an expanded harvesting cycle. Naturally that wouldn't be a win-win situation (millions would die from other reasons - especially due to flooding and storms) but the deaths from exposure to cold and hunger would be partially mitigated.
Holy citations Batman! Well done 👍🏼 But why fight it? I know our transportation secretary Pete BootEdgeEdge is very busy chasing racist roads (you can look it up) but this must be propaganda. Climate experts like Greta Thunberg and AOC say we must act now! And other countries are doing it. So that’s even more reason to quickly adopt. EV has to be the perfect solution! In fact, we should all go turn our cars in now and save the world before it’s too late ⏰ Time to celebrate 🥳

Disclaimer: I love rhetorical questions. I’m no expert by any means but learned how to read in elementary school. I like humor cuz it’s better than crying…. So, I ain’t gonna get my panties in a wad with different opinions. In fact, they’re great! That’s what makes the world go around. Appreciate all y’all ✌🏼
 
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On a positive note, my wife has 100 shares of Tesla. They split 3:1, so she now has 300 😃. If you can’t bet em, join em! Hope they can keep printing money and those government incentives up long enough for us to profit (or before inflation outpaces our gains) 😖
 

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I say bring on the hybrid and electric vehicles. Having the battery off the line and the screaming ICE up top sounds great to me. With the performance shit people are doing to their EVs, I'm all for it. There will (in our lifetimes) always be a glut of ICE vehicles we can buy and still put on the road, and if I had to guess, I imagine any kind of federal law would include exceptions for certain categories of vehicles such as fleet, performance, etc. We'll see, though!
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