Death of ICE cars

[White Shadow]

A speed shop owner buddy of mine has a fully-built 1986 Gran National, whos 600hp V6 turbo engine is nearing the end of its life. Instead of building that up again, he's wanting to make a dramatic departure, and looking into acquiring Model S Plaid powertrain components..

I think we're gonna see a ton of classic car retrofits like these in the next ten years.

A few years ago, someone did exactly that with an Audi S5. But it was a Model S powertrain, since the Plaid wasn't out.

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[White Shadow]

That between the reduction in domestic production throughout the EU and NA areas due to climate initiatives, the even larger reduction in availability (and related costs) of sanctioning Putin and removing those imports - that there will be fairly widespread shortages of not only gasoline and natural gas but also cooking/heating oils. Not to mention those now incapable of affording what is available.

When you couple that with a nearly identical situation in agriculture (which was already bad due to COVID impacts)... and we're gonna see some crazy shit in the next two years. There's riots all over the EU and NA as well due to the restrictions on modern fertilization and harvesting which are also heavily dependent on fossil fuels.

Obviously there are thousands of other articles and experts, but I tried to pull selections mostly from more "left-leaning" to "unbiased" sources for the most part. Naturally, if you read articles from sources opposed to climate initiatives themselves they will be much more critical... but these are from sources mostly in favor of the very reductions and sanctions themselves - they simply have to admit what the repercussions will be.

If we had significant global warming in the next two years... like an order of magnitude greater than we've experienced over the past 20 - then there would be an increase in arable land in the direction of the poles and an expanded harvesting cycle. Naturally that wouldn't be a win-win situation (millions would die from other reasons - especially due to flooding and storms) but the deaths from exposure to cold and hunger would be partially mitigated.

Well, I guess it doesn't matter beause the world is doomed already anyway.

But wait, maybe it's not.

Anyway, at the desire to avoid a huge debate, let me just say that I really don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to the fate of the planet due to climate change for starters. But one thing I'm quite sure about is that mankind will figure it out and press on, even if we somehow ended up in another Ice Age. Elon Musk will colonize Mars and start civilization over again. No worries.....lol

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Ive seen a few muscle cars swapped on YT, one of my favorites right here

 

[KahnBB6]

A few years ago, someone did exactly that with an Audi S5. But it was a Model S powertrain, since the Plaid wasn't out.

You mean this one, I think. I love this guy's work, especially mastering the CANBUS codes for both the Tesla and Audi electronics AND keeping the motor swap longitudinal and retaining the original Quattro AWD system.

 

[digicidal]

I love the EV conversions - and they'd be a win-win scenario if someone could provide a mass production model for doing them. Then the waste of moving from ICE to EV would only be drive-train components (most of which could have other uses).

At the very least it would eliminate a decent amount of toxic interior components going to landfills before they've even been used thoroughly.

 

[KahnBB6]

I love the EV conversions - and they'd be a win-win scenario if someone could provide a mass production model for doing them. Then the waste of moving from ICE to EV would only be drive-train components (most of which could have other uses).

At the very least it would eliminate a decent amount of toxic interior components going to landfills before they've even been used thoroughly.

I don't think "mass production model" is what we'll be looking at for EV conversions. Some very popular models will likely have fully thought out kits available (which is already the case for just a few classic cars right now but mostly old Porsches and VWs) but overall we'll certainly be looking at more proven and off the shelf motors, fully contained drive units, many grades of inverters, aftermarket ECUs specifically made for EV conversions, etc.

For instance AEM already does this with a couple of universal ECUs specifically designed to interface with custom paired motors and inverters. On the open source end several popular motor drive units and inverters have been reverse engineered with totally non-proprietary control that the owner and/or shop can program as they like.

All of that WILL get better but for right now you either need to be wealthy enough to send your classic car to a specialty shop with a 3-4 year waiting list and spend about $50k-$80k to have them give you a turnkey conversion.... or.... research everything yourself and gain your own skills to do the work or most of it yourself for the cost of the components alone.

I think some of it will remain relative to how it is with restomods today. There are many shops that will do a turnkey engine swapped car with all the bugs worked out for those with deeper pockets and then there are the rest of us who do it ourselves in our garages learning as we go.

Actually this is exactly how Mate Rimac, the young guy who founded the Rimac supercar and consulting company and who now also is the CEO of Bugatti, started his career. Granted all the right pieces had to fall into place for him at just the right time but he's a brilliant guy who began as a hobbyist with an old BMW E30 that he converted to a high horsepower electric a decade ago. Back in 2010-2013 he was still just someone sharing his progress with other EV hobbyists on an online forum. And now...?

As for the reclamation and conversion of older cars with blown engines, etc. before they are just junked (or worse, sent into another "cash for clunkers" abomination) I am all for it.

There are *some* very special iconic combustion engines that I have some pause about ripping out and retiring but there are so many more cases where it's more about the car itself being more special than which engine... or motor... is propelling it. And yes, there are many popular engine and transmission combinations out there that make for amazing swaps into many vehicles. But that often hard to define specialness is also about the bodies and suspensions of the cars themselves.

We shouldn't be discouraging learning about EVs and how to bring conversions to the same common level as any old engine swap project but instead promoting it as a way forward for classics, restomods and to learn how to do new things and augment old knowledge with new knowledge for everyone who likes special cars and taking up new challenges.

If anything this should be hand in hand with a growing Right To Repair movement and pushback against a culture of disposability and "software walled garden" new EVs that we'll probably have to work very hard at hacking in order to gain 100% control of for the purposes of totally limitless modification and avoidance of subscription feature lockouts.

I like seeing superior, well designed vehicle chassis designs from every era of auto design survive and stay on the roads no matter what powers them. Each of them have unique looks, handling characteristics, quirks and appeal and the new technology should be used to also keep such classics around to be appreciated and enjoyed.

We all have our favorite models but all cars eventually become classics and they all have something unique to offer for anyone who drives them.

 

[RenRed2]

I love the EV conversions - and they'd be a win-win scenario if someone could provide a mass production model for doing them. Then the waste of moving from ICE to EV would only be drive-train components (most of which could have other uses).

At the very least it would eliminate a decent amount of toxic interior components going to landfills before they've even been used thoroughly.

How much of a CG shift is noted for these conversions. Would be interesting to see how the handling dynamics are affected with this installation.

 

[digicidal]

How much of a CG shift is noted for these conversions. Would be interesting to see how the handling dynamics are affected with this installation.

Indeed. Sure they're great for ripping down the street (or strip) and perfectly fine on a grocery run or work commute... but I don't often hear/see anyone talk track times.

 

[RenRed2]

Indeed. Sure they're great for ripping down the street (or strip) and perfectly fine on a grocery run or work commute... but I don't often hear/see anyone talk track times.

Would think added weight has to be the case with batteries and electric motors being anything but light. Nice to have the nostalgic look but the dynamics of the original would be missed in my opinion. Reality is fully designed electric cars will be better drivers most likely.

 

[MYA90SUPRA]

I guess I'm not really understanding the issue here. I didn't think there's any real war on petrol. I think the idea is to swing towards so called clean energy. Yes, electric cars are probably the biggest focus today, but if you think about it, that should make oil based fuels more abundant and ultimately less costly, no?

I mean, nobody is even trying to shut down fossil fuels at this point. We'll never see that in our lifetimes. But if the governments of the world can push the adoption of electric cars (through incentivizing them), then I guess that helps all around to some extent.

Every time I see a Tesla on the road, I think to myself 'good, less gas used by that guy, so keep it up and gas should get cheaper'

And some day I'm quite sure that I'll be in an EV myself, but for now I want to enjoy my gas powered cars while I can. In my opinion, there's plenty of time to switch to electric and I'm sure they'll be much better than they are now. I don't need to be an early adopter, that's for sure.

It would make oil cheaper if there was still enough demand for it. If demand shrank so much that companies lose money they would quit acquiring it causing supply to drop drastically and could cause it to be even more expensive.

 

[Materia]

In California we have a shit electrical grind that will cause fires due to lines not being put under the ground and instead of poles.

Unless people get over their fear of nuclear power, I can't see this grid handling all of California via Electric. I wouldn't mind if for example the made an electric Supra.

But I don't see this happening since Nuclear tech hasn't even improved in decades. We can't even get Dwayne Wade not to run 4 olympic pools in a drought or prevent farming in desert areas. So until then I'm going to enjoy the feeling of me driving 10 mph in 8th gear

 

[Zupra1776]

Hydrogen is the answer. Electric cars are a scam. If you give a sht about the environment look into lithium ion battery disposal.

 

[zrk]

Hydrogen is the answer. Electric cars are a scam. If you give a sht about the environment look into lithium ion battery disposal.

This is it, though. No one is saying Lithium Ion is the end all, but it's progress towards a goal. No one that is championing EVs is championing lithium-ion, but it's a step. If you don't invest in what we have available, you'll never be able to fund more sustainable research.

There are a lot of electricity sources, many of which can become sustainable. The current system is not, that doesn't mean you can't do better.

 

[White Shadow]

It would make oil cheaper if there was still enough demand for it. If demand shrank so much that companies lose money they would quit acquiring it causing supply to drop drastically and could cause it to be even more expensive.

I doubt any of us will live long enough to see a point in time where demand for oil decreases to the point that it becomes expensive again. I mean, oil demand is far more than just for automobiles. And consider global demand too....the market is affected by more than just one or two countries.

 

[White Shadow]

Hydrogen is the answer. Electric cars are a scam. If you give a sht about the environment look into lithium ion battery disposal.

Well, out of all the possible technologies that could have emerged for automobiles, it seems that electric has won out. It seems unstoppable at this point in time.

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