Death of ICE cars

[KahnBB6]

Well, out of all the possible technologies that could have emerged for automobiles, it seems that electric has won out. It seems unstoppable at this point in time.

But even hydrogen is electric in most cases based on the applications currently out there. Hydrogen fuel cells specifically, hooked up to a modestly sized lithium-ion battery pack that the fuel cell stack constantly adds power to. And that modest size battery also acts as a way to smooth out the reserve power at the that the vehicle uses for actual propulsion.

Currently there is a reason why very large commercial, industrial, marine and other vehicles (or vessels in the case of cargo ships) might use hydrogen fuel cells or even hydrogen internal combustion over tons upon tons of extremely heavy batteries.

And on land the refueling and production lines that might service hydrogen fuel cell or hydrogen combustion powered semi trucks might also be what some niche hydrogen ICE sporty cars piggyback onto.... similar in the way that diesel fuel routes are set up today.

....

But we'll see regarding hydrogen. Batteries will only continue to improve, get smaller and lighter and eschew their poor characteristics and eventually the days of a near 5,000-6,000lb family sedan will be a thing of the past.

I 100% agree that BEVs are definitely not going anywhere for smaller vehicles and their prevalence is going to dominate for the most part. If the technology becomes good enough there may then be a true challenge to the advantages hydrogen brings (overcoming the weight to power density and range differential) on the industrial side as well.

...

Also whoever said above that so far we're not seeing many good examples of EV track cars (other than perhaps high dollar experimental racecars) is sadly on the money as well. I think this will change when the very next generation of solid state battery cells come to market on a large scale and outshine lithium-ion cell technology.

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[FLtrackdays]

Well, out of all the possible technologies that could have emerged for automobiles, it seems that electric has won out. It seems unstoppable at this point in time.

True. It does seem that way. In 2020, our entire population/civilization was under threat from Covid. Then in 2021, strict policy and a 99% efficacious vaccine with masking was going to eradicate the virus. And today, some still cling to those theories, while others adapt and simply move on... Will banning ICE cars save the world from global warming? Perhaps. Or will we simply move on from another short term feels good political policy - only to go back to letting a free market adapt to circumstances that are constantly evolving?

Only time and careful voting will tell

 

[zrk]

True. It does seem that way. In 2020, our entire population/civilization was under threat from Covid. Then in 2021, strict policy and a 99% efficacious vaccine with masking was going to eradicate the virus. And today, some still cling to those theories, while others adapt and simply move on... Will banning ICE cars save the world from global warming? Perhaps. Or will we simply move on from another short term feels good political policy - only to go back to letting a free market adapt to circumstances that are constantly evolving?

Only time and careful voting will tell

So- I'm a big fan of EVs and EVs becoming the norm. I live in big congested cities (NYC for 10 years, now I'm in Chicago). Gasoline cars are.. fucking terrible. The whole city smells, air is thick, blah blah. Of course, not all of this is the cars. Some of it is. NYC isn't very industrial (though some boroughs are a bit), and Chicago has a little more industry on the outskirts.

I dream of living in these places where cars are quiet and overall emissions are down.

Do I want ICE gone? Of course not. I love ICEs. There's a time an a place for everything, and this is why 'feel good political policy' as you put it is trash. You get a few folks to lose their fucking shit, and we over-correct. This happens time and time and time again. Putting political pressure on 'eliminating internal combustion engines by 2034' or whatever is an absolutely trash way to go about this.

The technology needs to evolve (quite a bit, as I said in my past post) before we're anywhere near sustainability. I'm happy that the technology is getting there, it's advancing, but it's no where near what we need.

With knee-jerk reactions across the board, you end up with cheap garbage tech that does nothing but satisfies the bare minimum requirements outlined in the policy, and you have shitty EVs, still tons of fuel based cars everywhere, and you end up with the worst of both worlds.

tl;dr fuck everything.

 

[White Shadow]

True. It does seem that way. In 2020, our entire population/civilization was under threat from Covid. Then in 2021, strict policy and a 99% efficacious vaccine with masking was going to eradicate the virus. And today, some still cling to those theories, while others adapt and simply move on... Will banning ICE cars save the world from global warming? Perhaps. Or will we simply move on from another short term feels good political policy - only to go back to letting a free market adapt to circumstances that are constantly evolving?

Only time and careful voting will tell

Personally, I don't think EVs are the be-all, end-all solution to saving the earth from the apparent devastation of increased global warming. Will they help? Probably. How much? Who knows. There are so many other non-motor vehicle sources of hydrocarbon emissions that I don't really think a complete and total ban of ICE cars will have any major impact initially. Plus the fact that we're living in a fantasy world if we think that ICE cars can be banned anyway. New ICE car sales? Sure, easy enough to ban them. But we'll still have ICE cars on our roads for decades at the very least.

That said, I'm still curious and somewhat excited to see what the future holds for EVs. I'd love to have one myself, but the way I see it right now, EVs still suck compared to ICE cars. Wake me up in 10 or 20 years if we start to see EVs that can achieve parity with ICE cars in terms of range and refueling times. On EV forums, you always see people commenting about charging overnight in their garages...and that's terrific...score one for EVs. But what I'm talking about is charging during road trips. We're just nowhere near the speed and convenience of "refueling" an EV compared to an ICE car yet.

 

[underdonk]

So- I'm a big fan of EVs and EVs becoming the norm. I live in big congested cities (NYC for 10 years, now I'm in Chicago). Gasoline cars are.. fucking terrible. The whole city smells, air is thick, blah blah. Of course, not all of this is the cars. Some of it is. NYC isn't very industrial (though some boroughs are a bit), and Chicago has a little more industry on the outskirts.

I dream of living in these places where cars are quiet and overall emissions are down.

Do I want ICE gone? Of course not. I love ICEs. There's a time an a place for everything, and this is why 'feel good political policy' as you put it is trash. You get a few folks to lose their fucking shit, and we over-correct. This happens time and time and time again. Putting political pressure on 'eliminating internal combustion engines by 2034' or whatever is an absolutely trash way to go about this.

The technology needs to evolve (quite a bit, as I said in my past post) before we're anywhere near sustainability. I'm happy that the technology is getting there, it's advancing, but it's no where near what we need.

With knee-jerk reactions across the board, you end up with cheap garbage tech that does nothing but satisfies the bare minimum requirements outlined in the policy, and you have shitty EVs, still tons of fuel based cars everywhere, and you end up with the worst of both worlds.

tl;dr fuck everything.

You paint a perfect picture of the political reality I work in on a daily basis in government. It's not just little g "government" but big G "Government" as well, of course. This is the way.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Personally, I don't think EVs are the be-all, end-all solution to saving the earth from the apparent devastation of increased global warming. Will they help? Probably. How much? Who knows. There are so many other non-motor vehicle sources of hydrocarbon emissions that I don't really think a complete and total ban of ICE cars will have any major impact initially. Plus the fact that we're living in a fantasy world if we think that ICE cars can be banned anyway. New ICE car sales? Sure, easy enough to ban them. But we'll still have ICE cars on our roads for decades at the very least.

That said, I'm still curious and somewhat excited to see what the future holds for EVs. I'd love to have one myself, but the way I see it right now, EVs still suck compared to ICE cars. Wake me up in 10 or 20 years if we start to see EVs that can achieve parity with ICE cars in terms of range and refueling times. On EV forums, you always see people commenting about charging overnight in their garages...and that's terrific...score one for EVs. But what I'm talking about is charging during road trips. We're just nowhere near the speed and convenience of "refueling" an EV compared to an ICE car yet.

Agree! Long trips with an EV definitely wouldn't be my thing. For short in town commutes, it would be nice! As long as the price of charging (my electric bill) wasn't severely impacted - as in significant increase in cost per kilowatt. And if they wouldn't use as much energy as my two AC units down here in Florida. Thinking when the incentives stop and reality hits, it may not be pretty when we're all doing this (full adoption)

 

[dethred]

I came into this thread expecting a record for the most brain damaging posts in the history of this forum, and I was not disappointed. I can read each post and know exactly where each of you get your information, ranging from legitimate science to Fucker Carlson. Car shitheads never disappoint.

 

[underdonk]

I came into this thread expecting a record for the most brain damaging posts in the history of this forum, and I was not disappointed. I can read each post and know exactly where each of you get your information, ranging from legitimate science to Fucker Carlson. Car shitheads never disappoint.

That's a bit strong.

 

[dethred]

That's a bit strong.

I thought it was quite restrained.

 

[zrk]

I came into this thread expecting a record for the most brain damaging posts in the history of this forum, and I was not disappointed. I can read each post and know exactly where each of you get your information, ranging from legitimate science to Fucker Carlson. Car shitheads never disappoint.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's all shitheads, not just car shitheads.

 

[underdonk]

I thought it was quite restrained.

Everyone has their opinions (including you) on this controversial topic and they're entitled to 'em. The spirit of this thread seems to be to discuss those differing opinions... and shit on each other while doing it you shitbag.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I came into this thread expecting a record for the most brain damaging posts in the history of this forum, and I was not disappointed. I can read each post and know exactly where each of you get your information, ranging from legitimate science to Fucker Carlson. Car shitheads never disappoint.

I love S2Ks! And you have two. Something to agree on I love intelligent debate man! I don’t think any one person knows it all. Hence everyon’s opinions are important. It’s never helpful listening to only one side, imo. Gavin Newsom may be the smartest man alive and no one should question his decisions. Maybe that’s your point? Hard to get ur drift if you let others get to ya…. Lotta great peeps here! It’s a car subject, nothing so sensitive or offensive

 

[dethred]

I agree, let's all contribute to misinformation, continue as you were fellas.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I agree, let's all contribute to misinformation, continue as you were fellas.

I’d rather hear your correct information

 

[dethred]

I’d rather hear your correct information

I'm not an expert, so why am I going to contribute to something I know very little about? I appear to be the only one capable of that self-awareness, weirdly.

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