Do I really need this at 30k miles?

[ry0de]

View attachment 117601

I'm not quite sure what this is, but do I really need this at 30k miles?

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[concept]

View attachment 117601

I'm not quite sure what this is, but do I really need this at 30k miles?

Is it in your manual? If not, I would say no, it is not necessary.

 

[razorlab]

No, dealer rip off.

 

[lucky phil]

My former brother in law was once the financial controller here in Melbourne for one of the the biggest Japanese car manufacturer. He took his wife and 2 kids on an all expenses paid week to Hong Kong on the back of their service departments sales of injector cleaner. I told him it should be the service manager getting the freebie not him.
The Real estate agent that sold one of my houses 18 months ago used to be a service manager for a large British marque here in Melbourne only a few years ago then went into real estate. I was telling him about my former BIL's free trip and he said he was earning a $500/month commission on injector cleaner sales. Every car got the cleaner on every service. When the dealer principle saw his first monthly bonus amount he slashed his per bottle commission by a factor of 4X. My real estate guy played the game and within a month he was back on his $500/month commission again. This guy is a great estate agent and he's doing very nicely out of it indeed these days. He was wasted as a service manager.
If you run your car on quality fuel then and it doesn't sit around unused for extended periods then the cleaner isn't needed. Quality fuels already have detergents to keep injectors clean.
Phil

 

[CrimsonSupra]

Use Top Tier rated fuel and/or simply pour a bottle of fuel injector cleaner that contains high amounts of P.E.A. (polyether-amine) into your tank every few thousand miles. The Top Tier fuels are recommended by various auto manufacturers due to a minimum level of detergents included in the fuel to help keep the fuel system clean. PEA is the active ingredient in any aftermarket fuel system cleaner that actually works. Amsoil PI or Chevron Techron are popular examples. Generally, any additives sold by dealers are high profit margin products that cost more than the DIY equivalent if they even do anything significant.

 

[COLLINS]

Auto/tire Shop guy here, just my .02:

if it’s a fuel injector cleaner bottle that goes in the gas tank, the above comments are spot on.

If it’s an induction cleaning service (cleaner sprayed through intake manifold to clean intake & valves), it’s a great idea for direct injected engines. With port fuel injection the intake valves are generally wet so they don’t build up a lot of carbon/deposits, but on DI engines that doesn’t happen due to the injector spraying directly into the combustion chamber, so the deposit build up can slow the air getting into the combustion chamber causing fuel trim issues and performance loss. Without any correction I have seen engines go (more in to 100k-150k mi mark, some as soon as 80k), especially in cheaper cars and when the owners are less prone to thorough maintenance. There’s a lot of info on this out there if you choose to do your research. I tried to keep the info short and sweet.

You can always contact your dealer or a reputable shop you trust that specializes in these engines for more info.

 

[concept]

Auto/tire Shop guy here, just my .02:

if it’s a fuel injector cleaner bottle that goes in the gas tank, the above comments are spot on.

If it’s an induction cleaning service (cleaner sprayed through intake manifold to clean intake & valves), it’s a great idea for direct injected engines. With port fuel injection the intake valves are generally wet so they don’t build up a lot of carbon/deposits, but on DI engines that doesn’t happen due to the injector spraying directly into the combustion chamber, so the deposit build up can slow the air getting into the combustion chamber causing fuel trim issues and performance loss. Without any correction I have seen engines go (more in to 100k-150k mi mark, some as soon as 80k), especially in cheaper cars and when the owners are less prone to thorough maintenance. There’s a lot of info on this out there if you choose to do your research. I tried to keep the info short and sweet.

You can always contact your dealer or a reputable shop you trust that specializes in these engines for more info.

I believe I read that at least some Audi direct injection engines (2.0 turbo) require walnut blasting at 60,000 miles.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

I believe I read that at least some Audi direct injection engines (2.0 turbo) require walnut blasting at 60,000 miles.

Correct, my sons 2012 GTI at 120k miles was starting to misfire bad when cold. Had the walnut blasting at the dealer when it was at 70k (from the PO). Me and him did it with the seafoam and zip tie method. I'd buy a walnut blaster if I had to do it again. But it was soooooo badly caked I'm surprised it was running at all.

 

[COLLINS]

By performing these services, this is what prevents that damage, or staves it off anyway. There are plenty of places that recommend them once a year, we just follow oem recommendations where I work, but I can see why others recommend them more frequently.

 

[lucky phil]

By performing these services, this is what prevents that damage, or staves it off anyway. There are plenty of places that recommend them once a year, we just follow oem recommendations where I work, but I can see why others recommend them more frequently.

If I understand your post and you are referring to carbon build up on the rear face of inlet valves then fuel additives have zero effect because it's a DI engine. For walnut blasting it's a remedial action and has no preventative aspect to it all.

Phil

 

[razorlab]

Weird that a guy that owns an auto shop that makes money doing this BS says this BS is really necessary.

Just a hint, a good amount of people can see your BS a mile away.

 

[racebuild]

If I understand your post and you are referring to carbon build up on the rear face of inlet valves then fuel additives have zero effect because it's a DI engine. For walnut blasting it's a remedial action and has no preventative aspect to it all.

Phil

I don’t think you did, quoted below.

Only way to truly prevent build up is water injection. The average Supra owner is not going to do that. Walnut blasting is gonna be their best bet to keep it under control.

If it’s an induction cleaning service (cleaner sprayed through intake manifold to clean intake & valves), it’s a great idea for direct injected engines. With port fuel injection the intake valves are generally wet so they don’t build up a lot of carbon/deposits, but on DI engines that doesn’t happen due to the injector spraying directly into the combustion chamber, so the deposit build up can slow the air getting into the combustion chamber causing fuel trim issues and performance loss. Without any correction I have seen engines go (more in to 100k-150k mi mark, some as soon as 80k), especially in cheaper cars and when the owners are less prone to thorough maintenance. There’s a lot of info on this out there if you choose to do your research. I tried to keep the info short and sweet.

You can always contact your dealer or a reputable shop you trust that specializes in these engines for more info.

 

[lucky phil]

I don’t think you did, quoted below.

Only way to truly prevent build up is water injection. The average Supra owner is not going to do that. Walnut blasting is gonna be their best bet to keep it under control.

Ok. Makes it easier to follow when people quote what they are responding to.
Water meth port injection isn't the whole answer to inlet valve carbon build up anyway, port fuel injection is the best answer. Gasoline has detergents included in it to keep the back of the valves clean as the contamination occurs and WM does not. WM injection is only used under specific parameters where in a non DI engine the port injection is constantly cleaning the back of the inlet valve with the fuel detergents while ever the engine is running. Some of the problem isn't just oil mist via the PCV system being re ingested but also to some extent exhaust contamination and reversion back into the inlet tract during valve overlap.. You can only mitigate so much with a DI engine. As a a side note walnut shell cleaning has been used on jet engines for many many years. I've never done it on a jet or ICE engine but I know the procedure. On our jets we used to water wash them regularly. The Walnut cleaning was for operators in severe operating conditions.

Phil

 

[RenRed2]

BMW engines currently are not experiencing any major build up. The valve timing events of the motors have minimized this. No dealer here is going to recommend any injection service, additive or walnut blasting on the current M or B58 motors. It has been this way for sometime now. They might check at 120k kilometers or more. My 14 M235i had a new valve cover gasket put on at 90k kilometers. Clean and in need of no service on the valves. N55 series motors are also not known to develop and inordinate amount of carbon build up on intake valves at all.

The N54 was the gold standard for troublesome carbon build up. Thats not an issue with the follow on motors at all. The issue is far less apparent.

The carbon build-up on BMW diesel engines is a big mess. I have seen that first hand at my dealer. Will not own any of those. They are a gunked up fiasco.

 

[COLLINS]

Weird that a guy that owns an auto shop that makes money doing this BS says this BS is really necessary.

Just a hint, a good amount of people can see your BS a mile away.

I don’t think you read my posts it’s all good, I work with a lot of folks that aren’t in the industry and may not have a strong mechanical education. I just try to keep things easy, you are welcome to judge away, if you’d like.

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