From Supra to G87 M2 or FL5 CTR or GR86/BRZ?

[Mdstx]

I bought a new FE 6MT last year and it has mostly lived in my garage (about 800 miles on the odometer). I bought it with the thought that it would be my fun drive around town and drive to the track car. Hindsight being what it is, I probably should have bought one of the other cars I was considering (M2, CTR, GR86 - all come with a manual transmission and all have back seats). The Supra is not well suited for the track unless you spend a fair amount of money on it and it’s a bit limited in its around town usability. My current track cars are NC Miatas. They are excellent on track. They handle extremely well, provide wonderful communication with the road, and are fairly light on consumables. They also are relatively lightweight, so they tow fairly easily. The one con for them is the relative lack of power. And they are not my preference for driving to the track or around town. No solution is perfect. Anyone here have significant experience with the Supra and either the M2, CTR, or GR86/BRZ?

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[Ninjaar]

I have both a Supra and a GR86. I track the gr86 maybe 2-3 weekends a year and its a blast. 86 has a bit more power then a Miata and drive similar from talking to people that have driven both on the track. Not sure if the power jump is gonna be enough though for you though from Miata to 86.

Im currently looking at potentially swapping the 86 out for an FL5 or DE5 though as they are a bit more practical. I did consider a older F87 comp or new M240i, but the CTR or Integra type S just seem like better value and i like the idea of being the single owner rather then hunting around for a good example that hasnt been abused.

Would love to keep 86, but having three cars might draw a bit too much wife aggro. Likely going to keep the 86 for another year and then make a decision. I also considered the GR Corolla but my friend's has issues with the transfer case over heating on the track and the transfer case cooler is like ~$2k to address.

 

[jmikes]

I would definitely argue that the Supra is pretty well set up for the track out of the box, but I get ya.

Of those three options I would go M2. It has the disadvantages of being large/heavy and having the worst manual trans out of the 3 by far, and looks are subjective but I think they look crappy if you don't get the right color, but it's got great power + a FAR better interior than the others (opinions on huge screens aside), is fairly practical, and the extra size means its nice and spacious for the driver / front passenger.

I'd go GR86 if you want something that's light and easy to fling around, but it's a little too slow imo, I think going from the Supra to the GR86 will make you want more power. Not that power/straightline speed is everything yada yada, but it is painfully noticeable stepping down to a car with half the power and torque even if it saves 500-600 pounds of weight.

The Civic Type R is a good car and very practical, but at $50K+ with tax and fees I'd much rather just spend the extra 10-15k on a M2 even if I have to go used, but that's my own opinion, I've never been very high on the CTR's.

 

[splv]

Idk sounds like you didn’t know what you were doing when you bought the Supra. You wanted a Miata but bought a Supra. Recommend proper and thorough research before you make the next mistake.

 

[Lorre]

I would probably go for the G87 M2 if you really have to give up on the Supra. You don’t really have to spend a lot to make it more track focused unless you’re chasing lap times (which the Supra is already about just as fast as the M2 in most tracks - literally proven by pro drivers) or intending to be turning it into a track car (which you also have to spend some money even if you get the M2)

The M2 might be slightly more capable out of the box, but I didn’t really like the brake feel and the engine has significant boost threshold and some turbo lag to deal with. Not to mention the big screen….These are not deal breakers for me, but I wished it was not like that. It is otherwise a fantastic car.

With the FL5, you’ll probably hit the thermal headroom very soon as they run into coolant and oil temp issues even on stock tune. But it’s got a big boot and a spacious back seat.

I think the GR86 is a fantastic track car which will not consume a lot of tyres and brake pads as its relatively light but I’m not sure if you will find it lacking in power as compared to the Supra and being NA, there’s not much you can do unless you spend a lot on engine power mods.

I have owned a FK8 Type R and have driven a G87 M2 manual. The M2 is what I would consider swapping my Supra for. End day, I wanted a 6 cylinder with a manual box and a dedicated 2 seater pure sports car platform. That’s why I’m here.

Hope this helps you decide.

 

[Hasan]

The GR86 is loads of on the road and the track.

CTR has the most usable rear seats.

 

[Dantist]

If you're considering the switch to a FL5 CTR, here's my experience. I had a '22 A91 CF before dumping that for a '23 FL5, both of which I owned for a year. I came back to a '24 Supra manual because it's a much better car, both on the street and track.

On track, the CTR had issues with overheating drivetrain + brakes. I didn't feel like the driving experience was that bad with FF, but I don't have much experience. The day to day driving experience was awful, way too stiff even on comfort mode. The highway driving assist is really good. I thought the CTR would scratch the itch of being a good daily and a good track car, it was good at neither.

The Supra is better for me. Faster on track and better road manners.

 

[i3igpete]

Now I'm kind of curious, what exactly are the track shortcomings that you saw in the supra, that would be resolved with an M2?

 

[Ninjaar]

If you're considering the switch to a FL5 CTR, here's my experience. I had a '22 A91 CF before dumping that for a '23 FL5, both of which I owned for a year. I came back to a '24 Supra manual because it's a much better car, both on the street and track.

On track, the CTR had issues with overheating drivetrain + brakes. I didn't feel like the driving experience was that bad with FF, but I don't have much experience. The day to day driving experience was awful, way too stiff even on comfort mode. The highway driving assist is really good. I thought the CTR would scratch the itch of being a good daily and a good track car, it was good at neither.

The Supra is better for me. Faster on track and better road manners.

awesome feed back this really helps me with my pending decision on dropping my 86 for a GR Corolla or a CTR for a better track/daily balance as I am daily driving my supra right now and looking to slow down the miles accumulating on it.

Did you ever consider the Integra type S? seems like might thread that needle the CTR doesnt manage to.

 

[Dantist]

awesome feed back this really helps me with my pending decision on dropping my 86 for a GR Corolla or a CTR for a better track/daily balance as I am daily driving my supra right now and looking to slow down the miles accumulating on it.

Did you ever consider the Integra type S? seems like might thread that needle the CTR doesnt manage to.

No, the only reason I bought the CTR was that I found a good deal when I was looking and sold it for more than I bought it. I thought about putting in the type S ADS into the type R to make the ride a bit better, but I got rid of the car before that. If you're keeping the Supra for track use, I don't think you need another dual duty car. If my daily was a GR Corolla, I don't think I'd ever choose to take that on track over a Supra in the garage.

 

[Mdstx]

Now I'm kind of curious, what exactly are the track shortcomings that you saw in the supra, that would be resolved with an M2?

Overheating and fuel starvation are my top 2. I haven’t fully explored suspension issues with the M2.
I typically do 12 or so track weekends a year at tracks like COTA (maybe no longer), Eagles Canyon, Ozarks, Barber, Road Atlanta, and Watkins Glen. I hope to get back to VIR next year. I also hope to experience some more tracks on the east coast next summer/fall.
The Supra is a beautiful car with a lovely powertrain. And it’s not that heavy by today’s standards. For it to be track worthy for me it needs at least an intake manifold, a viable solution to fuel starvation, suspension parts to add negative camber and probably more caster, and the usual track prep. The Supra won over the M2 primarily because the M2 is so heavy.
I also considered an Emira, but Lotus service is not easily found.

 

[kaj]

The Supra is not well suited for the track unless you spend a fair amount of money on it

For it to be track worthy for me it needs at least an intake manifold, a viable solution to fuel starvation, suspension parts to add negative camber and probably more caster, and the usual track prep.

Those are two of the craziest things I've read on this forum.

 

[Mdstx]

Those are two of the craziest things I've read on this forum.

Kaj,
Interesting comment. It begs the question, “Why do you say that?”
Are heat management issues and fuel starvation uncommon with these cars when pushed hard on track?
Do these cars have sufficient negative camber from the factory?
Is the stock suspension and its geometry well suited for the track?

Obviously, there are many Supra owners who have spent quite a bit of money trying to address those issues and make the Supra better suited for the track (some even while being able to still enjoy it on the street).

From my perspective, having to take a cool down lap multiple times during a track session or having to refuel each session or during extended lapping sessions doesn’t strike me as a car that is well suited for the track.

And, please appreciate that I think that my Supra can be very competent on track - but it will take a minimum investment of $10k. Not a huge amount of money, but certainly a fair amount of money.

So, please do share why you think those comments are so crazy.

 

[kaj]

Kaj,
Interesting comment. It begs the question, “Why do you say that?”
Are heat management issues and fuel starvation uncommon with these cars when pushed hard on track?
Do these cars have sufficient negative camber from the factory?
Is the stock suspension and its geometry well suited for the track?

Obviously, there are many Supra owners who have spent quite a bit of money trying to address those issues and make the Supra better suited for the track (some even while being able to still enjoy it on the street).

From my perspective, having to take a cool down lap multiple times during a track session or having to refuel each session or during extended lapping sessions doesn’t strike me as a car that is well suited for the track.

And, please appreciate that I think that my Supra can be very competent on track - but it will take a minimum investment of $10k. Not a huge amount of money, but certainly a fair amount of money.

So, please do share why you think those comments are so crazy.

I did a full season of time attack with camber plates, wheels, tires, brake pads, and brake fluid (every single car ever made needs these, so not a deal breaker). I was faster than every other car in my class (classes based on a points system), including M-coupes, and various generations of M3s in different configurations. Some were on Hoosiers. Some were somewhat stripped down with roll cages, suspension upgrades, deleted cats, etc., depending on how they chose to "spend" their points. None of those cars were what I'd consider slow.
The only problem I ever had was the shift lever moving out of manual mode under hard cornering. Weather varied, but I know it was probably over 100*f during one of my events at Buttonwillow.
In the above configuration, I almost matched my PB lap time that I set in a purpose-built (but street legal) car with 430whp, 3200lbs, and AWD. I was beyond impressed.
I'm not sure why you've had so many problems with yours, but I'm genuinely curious as to why we've had such different experiences. I'd assume you are looking to make far more power and go much faster than my stocker every could.
I did sell the car because it was going to cost me $10k to modify the car enough to move up to the next class, so I completely understand not wanting to spend that kinda money on the car.

 

[Mdstx]

I did a full season of time attack with camber plates, wheels, tires, brake pads, and brake fluid (every single car ever made needs these, so not a deal breaker). I was faster than every other car in my class (classes based on a points system), including M-coupes, and various generations of M3s in different configurations. Some were on Hoosiers. Some were somewhat stripped down with roll cages, suspension upgrades, deleted cats, etc., depending on how they chose to "spend" their points. None of those cars were what I'd consider slow.
The only problem I ever had was the shift lever moving out of manual mode under hard cornering. Weather varied, but I know it was probably over 100*f during one of my events at Buttonwillow.
In the above configuration, I almost matched my PB lap time that I set in a purpose-built (but street legal) car with 430whp, 3200lbs, and AWD. I was beyond impressed.
I'm not sure why you've had so many problems with yours, but I'm genuinely curious as to why we've had such different experiences. I'd assume you are looking to make far more power and go much faster than my stocker every could.
I did sell the car because it was going to cost me $10k to modify the car enough to move up to the next class, so I completely understand not wanting to spend that kinda money on the car.

Thanks for the explanation. I’m happy to hear your experience was positive.

To be clear, I haven’t made any modifications to my Supra yet and I have not tracked it yet. I was about to pull the trigger on some track upgrades when I learned of the fuel starvation issue. The heat management issue is fairly well documented in almost any discussion about tracking the Mk5. My research (online research, consulting with race engineers who work on client’s track Supras, and chatting with those drivers who are tracking their Supras at the many track events I attend) has led me to the conclusions I stated. Frankly, if you search this forum you’ll find that my conclusions are supported by the experiences of others here.

Anyhow, thanks for your input. The conversation in this thread has been good and has me thinking about my next move.

Cheers

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