New rumors from C&D: 2020 Supra to get BMW inline six engine / B58 & S58 chat

[MA617M]

remember, the mules are reported as wearing 255 (F) and 275 (R) section width Michelin PS tyres....

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[Guff]

edit: I hope it doesn't sound like this

Yeah this sounds like somebody is doing some roofing in the background.

With the M2 dropping the N55 for the S55 for 2019... Shouldn't the Supra get the M2 engine (S55 detuned from M4) over the B58 M240i engine?

I vote for S55 - tuned roughly the same as the new M2 around 400hp.

#3jz

The S55/N55 is just too old and too poorly designed of a motor though. The B58 was created as a clean slate to fix the issues that the old motor had (which was numerous). Rear main, oil filter seals, leaky oil pans, bad water pumps, bad HPFPs, and the infamous Crank Hub failure to name a few.

I will gladly take less horsepower for a far better designed engine. And if Toyota is going to have their hand in the B58, then I imagine at least some of the reliability concerns can be mitigated.

 

[A70TTR]

I definitely wouldn't rule out Toyota using a different power plant for at least one of the GR models. full disclosure: I definitely don't know a ton about the GR stuff, only the fundamentals and goals, but having the so called S58 in the GRMN model would make a lot of sense both from a performance and marketing aspect.

Again however, the specific details are a mystery to me the same as you all.

 

[Blupra]

Interesting position, the first thing that comes to mind is the B58 is a sweet spot for the tuners and would make for an awesome mid level trim. While Toyota may hold out for something even more potent in their trim topping Supra model?

I don't know but I'm thinking if they had the Z4 with this motor in a non M trim, this would disrupt there other lineups product positioning. Meaning why buy a 340 or 440 when the Z4 base or close to it has a more powerful motor. IDK just trying to reason.

Would be an awesome deal for the Supra, but I can't see BMW allowing this as it would piss there people off.

Agree. Do we know if the Z will have the B58? I'm assuming it will but I'm not researched on the BMW.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I'm still hoping for a V6TT from the Lexus LS500. I can't remember where I read that Lexus's goal was to use the V6TT in all their future cars...varying HP based on different sized turbos. This way, we get a 100% Toyota powertrain.

 

[Blupra]

Yeah this sounds like somebody is doing some roofing in the background.



The S55/N55 is just too old and too poorly designed of a motor though. The B58 was created as a clean slate to fix the issues that the old motor had (which was numerous). Rear main, oil filter seals, leaky oil pans, bad water pumps, bad HPFPs, and the infamous Crank Hub failure to name a few.

I will gladly take less horsepower for a far better designed engine. And if Toyota is going to have their hand in the B58, then I imagine at least some of the reliability concerns can be mitigated.

I am now more educated, thank you. I wonder why all the M2 rumors say its getting the S55 then?

I definitely wouldn't rule out Toyota using a different power plant for at least one of the GR models. full disclosure: I definitely don't know a ton about the GR stuff, only the fundamentals and goals, but having the so called S58 in the GRMN model would make a lot of sense both from a performance and marketing aspect.

Again however, the specific details are a mystery to me the same as you all.

I guess I'll take the B58, especially if Toyota blessed it or modified it to its standards.

 

[A70TTR]

the M2 thing might be due to trickle down of tech and not wanting it to compete with the M3/M4, but those are just guesses.

 

[Timster1990]

I definitely wouldn't rule out Toyota using a different power plant for at least one of the GR models. full disclosure: I definitely don't know a ton about the GR stuff, only the fundamentals and goals, but having the so called S58 in the GRMN model would make a lot of sense both from a performance and marketing aspect.

Again however, the specific details are a mystery to me the same as you all.

Hmm...maybe "Dave from Toyota" was right all along? lol

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/dave-from-toyota-says-north-of-400-horsepower-manual-option.649/

 

[Craigy]

the M2 thing might be due to trickle down of tech and not wanting it to compete with the M3/M4, but those are just guesses.

Yeah BMW isn't going to have an M2 that competes with the M4. Unless it's some sort of comp package that costs more than an M4. Their product tiers are clearly delineated.

 

[Craigy]

Hmm...maybe "Dave from Toyota" was right all along? lol

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/dave-from-toyota-says-north-of-400-horsepower-manual-option.649/

If only it could be true!!!!

 

[A70TTR]

time will tell; like I said I really have very little specific info on those higher tier cars that would allow a deeper comparison, and even then I couldn't say much as per usual.

it would be pretty badass to have a Yamaha tuned variant of that Lexus TT in the upper models though

 

[Jotokutora]

Hope your right man...

I have owned 2 BMW M3's, M4, M2 and now the 135IS (with the N55 engine)

Essentially the 'New' supras top engine model will be the B58 which an updated engine replacing the n55. The n55/B58 is allocated in all BMW with the 35i/40i nomenclature models, and are the top performers, but below the M cars Engine. What the supra will get the 'SAME' engine of the Z4@ 380HP. 'However', the tuning software will be different and the cooling system. The Z4 will likely have an auxiliary oil cooler, and larger fan, or just a plain larger intercooler. This is the same methodology that BMW implement on their previous generations. Example, the regular E82 135i vs the 1M. The 135i@ 300HP and 300TQ with the same n54 engine. Difference is what i just stated.

What is the potential room for gains with the B58, very considerable. The B58 engine will be stronger than the n55 which is inside the current M2, M235i, etc... BMW turbos are usually 'Borg Warners' and now you can easily do a turbo update to 600HP or 800 HP respectively. Away with is BMW with twin turbos for their mainstream engine (none M) and instead going for twin scrolls (N55/B58). This engines are strong and reliable, have great torque all throughout the rev range thanks to the twin scroll system handling the lower and upper range quite efficiently. Also the Inline 6's sound really good with the proper exhaust. All in all, with 5-7K you will be smoking lambos and Mclarens with the supra.

Excuse the grammar

 

[Lexusisf]

Interesting, however how can you be 100% sure of the final engine and specs? Do you have insider info?

 

[Timster1990]

Interesting, however how can you be 100% sure of the final engine and specs? Do you have insider info?

Yea, last I checked the Bimmerpost insider who has proven to be accurate, said the 380 HP version is only going in the Z4, while the 330-340 HP engine will go in the Supra and Z4.

 

[MA617M]

I'm guessing thats pre-Toyota fiddling with it though. THat's probably the 'base' power output before Toyota adds whatever they add.

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