Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Evolution]

should have quoted, the question was for @Evolution

PMU Club Racers

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[Evolution]

Speaking of hot brakes, I've got a question about the project mu club racers since it's my first track pad. When they're EXTREMELY hot on track they get really bitey and start to squeal. When they get to that point the brakes are extremely sensitive and seem to grab really well at the slightest touch of the brake. This does not happen during the first few laps. I don't want to glaze the brakes and wasn't sure if this was a sign of anything I should be concerned about. When I mean hot, Tire temps are in the range of 175-200 degrees F. I don't have any way of checking brake temps. Is this normal?

Secondly, for street driving they seemed decent when I first put them on and bedded them but now after my first track weekend with them the initial bite seems to have lessened. They seem okay when warm on street (not hot) and it's mainly just low speed braking that it feels off. Like when I back out of the driveway between 5-10mph it doesn't seem to grab well. Or when I was modulating the brake when backing the car off my trailer when I got home from the track and everything was cold. In short I'm wanting to make sure everything's still safe.

I normally do a cool down lap when they really start to squeal. Thats them telling you they are about to the top of the heat range. And yes, the brakes need a little bit of heat before they start working better. After a few stops around town, they should start to feel normal.

 

[Rocksandblues]

Has anyone previously or currently run a square tire setup? How has the handling characteristics changed on the Supra?

Looking to downsize to 18"s and heavily considering a square setup but would love some personal feedback before deciding on wheel widths.

Like, everyone has

 

[PowerGetter]

Like, everyone has

ok -- I'm assuming you are/have then? How was your experience running the setup and what's your wheel/tire setup if you don't mind me asking? Thanks

 

[Rocksandblues]

have 2 18sq wheel sets in 10.5 and 11' wide.
tires vary from if I am doing TT, or funsies, and or what is available.

 

[tomfree]

ok -- I'm assuming you are/have then? How was your experience running the setup and what's your wheel/tire setup if you don't mind me asking? Thanks

I never tracked the car on the stock staggered wheels. I bought a square setup before my first track day with the car, as I've been around enough other cars to know my preferences.

I currently have 18x10.5 et 35, 15mm spacers, and 275/35/18 at all corners. I find it to be a good setup when you factor in how little I've done to the car (camber plates, sway bars, alignment). Turn in is pretty good, but like most cars on stock-ish setups, it washes out a bit mid corner. My co-driver wants a bit more rear grip, so I'm working on some potential options to change the setup of the car. With a good 200TW tire (I'm running Bridgestone RE71RS), the overall mechanical grip level is pretty darn high. It's not hard to drive, even with the traction control completely disabled.

 

[tomfree]

Speaking of hot brakes, I've got a question about the project mu club racers since it's my first track pad. When they're EXTREMELY hot on track they get really bitey and start to squeal. When they get to that point the brakes are extremely sensitive and seem to grab really well at the slightest touch of the brake. This does not happen during the first few laps. I don't want to glaze the brakes and wasn't sure if this was a sign of anything I should be concerned about. When I mean hot, Tire temps are in the range of 175-200 degrees F. I don't have any way of checking brake temps. Is this normal?

Secondly, for street driving they seemed decent when I first put them on and bedded them but now after my first track weekend with them the initial bite seems to have lessened. They seem okay when warm on street (not hot) and it's mainly just low speed braking that it feels off. Like when I back out of the driveway between 5-10mph it doesn't seem to grab well. Or when I was modulating the brake when backing the car off my trailer when I got home from the track and everything was cold. In short I'm wanting to make sure everything's still safe.

Honestly, your street performance sounds like most modern track pads in a street usage scenario. There are a bunch of factors at play here, so it's hard to really give you a precise answer, but that's my take.

As for "they get hot on track and they're extremely sensitive" , that's "working as designed" - it is what they're supposed to feel like. My experience with glazing has more to do with bedding in the pads vs overheating them. Yes, you CAN melt pad material and kill performance, but we're more likely to improperly bed them in, and then you never get that happy rotor face/brake pad interface. My experience in a situation like that was - too much pedal pressure to get the car to stop, poor initial bite, and that intangible "feel" of what the brakes were doing was never there.

 

[tomfree]

I normally do a cool down lap when they really start to squeal. Thats them telling you they are about to the top of the heat range. And yes, the brakes need a little bit of heat before they start working better. After a few stops around town, they should start to feel normal.

I've never looked at it that way, but it's an interesting take. I have been in situations where the previous lap, I was braking at the #3, but the very next lap if I did that, I blew the turn because the car didn't have enough brake. I couldn't tell you if it made more noise on the "blew the turn" lap or not. This can happen at the end of a spirited DE session, but it sure happens with regularity during enduros (different car...so some apples/oranges comparison going on). Somewhere that's hard on brakes like Carolina Motorsports Park is a perfect use case. CMP has several hard braking zones without a lot of time in between for cooling, and you can't just blast into the braking zone lap after lap. You MUST back off for a lap or two and adjust braking zone/braking pressure, etc.

 

[Gabe]

Has anyone previously or currently run a square tire setup? How has the handling characteristics changed on the Supra?

Looking to downsize to 18"s and heavily considering a square setup but would love some personal feedback before deciding on wheel widths.

Yes.
Most people that are track enthusiasts would prefer to run a square 18” set up over a staggered track 18 or a 19.

For multiple reasons:

You want less rotational weight, more sidewall, less price in consumables, the ability to cross rotate tires and more variety in compounds.

The way I see it, a mixed street / track use would benefit from a square set up on 18” probably at 9.5 wrapped in PS4S

If you have the chance to have separate street (show off) and a track set up, do staggered 19s for street (probably on Conti ExtremeContact 02) and likely and suspension mode to bring the wheel gap down, and square 18 for the track, also 9.5 on something that’s 200TW or so

If you are a hardcore track rat, most likely you would have a square 18”/10 set up that goes along with low profile suspension set ups and fat <200 TW tires

Here is a great guide on different tire set up’s.

 

[tomfree]

I'll disagree with the recommendation for a square 18x9.5 - you're loosing .5" of wheel width over the stock rear wheels (19x10). If you're doing a square setup, 18x10 at a minimum. You can do that with 4 rear wheels from a 2.0 car if you shop well.

 

[Gabe]

I'll disagree with the recommendation for a square 18x9.5 - you're loosing .5" of wheel width over the stock rear wheels (19x10). If you're doing a square setup, 18x10 at a minimum. You can do that with 4 rear wheels from a 2.0 car if you shop well.

Point taken. I like the idea of the 2.0 rear wheels.

[Edit] would the 18x10 clear the suspension on the front without mods? Or you would need at least spacers there. - that’s why I suggested 9.5. I am biased against spacer use.

 

[tomfree]

I can't speak for a 10, but my 18x10.5 et35 need a spacer. I run 15mm hub centric spacers all around with long lug studs. I've done DEs, time trials, and W2W races with spacers over the years and had good luck. When I took the rear wheels off my bone stock 944 years ago...and found a spacer, I ceased to worry.

I can respect that you don't care for spacers, but it will REALLY limit how much tire and wheel you can get under the car without spending megabucks for custom wheels with the perfect offset.

 

[Evolution]

10 wide up front with an offset of 30 will clear the stock spring perch.

 

[racebuild]

Those running club racers at the edge can try moving to a pmu 777/999 pad. At the current exchange rate you can get them for cheaper than the club racers.

 

[razorlab]

Those running club racers at the edge can try moving to a pmu 777/999 pad. At the current exchange rate you can get them for cheaper than the club racers.

Almost harder to get than Club Racers. Last time I checked I was given a six month ETA.

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