Running E85

[zrk]

To quote what I had said previously and make some wording changes so that we better understand lol.

"This is because if you run more than E25 on the stock tune, you could run lean due to insufficient fueling via the tuning, not via the fuel systems capabilities or limitations of hardware. Basically, do not mess with an E-blend at all unless you're tuning for it because you will not be able to take advantage in the slightest."

I guess I didn't speak correctly because what I meant to get across was roughly exactly what you said here lol. Basically, The fuel system as hardware can work with E40-E50, but the car itself, on the factory tune, would not know to dump more fuel because it wouldn't be tuned for that specific mixture from the factory.

Yes

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[GTGallop]

Well, E85 is cheaper, cleaner, and more powerful.

No - It is not.
E-85 has less energy density per gallon than E-10 or E-0.

Sure on a one for one basis, a gallon of E-0 has more emissions n it than a gallon of E-85 does. That much is true. What they don't tell you is that it will take you 1.2 gallons of E-85 to do the work that E-0 could do. And the emissions in 1.2 gallons of E-85 will net out to the same emissions in a gallon of E-0.

Assuming you could tune to run on it, it will cost you more in the long run and your MPG will drop.
The last vehicle I had that was capable of running E-85 was a 2007 Nissan Titan with the Flex Fuel package. Big 5.6L engine in it. Same commute, same traffic, same weather - fairly consistent. THe sticker rated that truck at 10MPG. If I babied it, I could get 14 to 16 MPG on E-10. When I switched over to E-85, I got 9mpg. And that was in a vehicle that was meant to run the E-85.

I have some stations near us that are allowed to sell E-0 still. They are up in Prescott AZ. I am constantly AMAZED at the fuel efficiency and throttle response when I tank up with E-0. Even when the E-0 is 87 octane and the E-10 is Premium, I still go with E-0.

 

[zrk]

No - It is not.
E-85 has less energy density per gallon than E-10 or E-0.

Sure on a one for one basis, a gallon of E-0 has more emissions n it than a gallon of E-85 does. That much is true. What they don't tell you is that it will take you 1.2 gallons of E-85 to do the work that E-0 could do. And the emissions in 1.2 gallons of E-85 will net out to the same emissions in a gallon of E-0.

Assuming you could tune to run on it, it will cost you more in the long run and your MPG will drop.
The last vehicle I had that was capable of running E-85 was a 2007 Nissan Titan with the Flex Fuel package. Big 5.6L engine in it. Same commute, same traffic, same weather - fairly consistent. THe sticker rated that truck at 10MPG. If I babied it, I could get 14 to 16 MPG on E-10. When I switched over to E-85, I got 9mpg. And that was in a vehicle that was meant to run the E-85.

I have some stations near us that are allowed to sell E-0 still. They are up in Prescott AZ. I am constantly AMAZED at the fuel efficiency and throttle response when I tank up with E-0. Even when the E-0 is 87 octane and the E-10 is Premium, I still go with E-0.

No one that is converting to flex/E85 gives a fuck about fuel economy, I don't think. It's that sweet sweet octane and power that we're after.

It's hardly true right now, but it was cheaper. Back when it was 2 bucks less per gallon, it didn't matter if you were losing on an MPG or two and had to fill up more frequently.

It's w/o question cleaner.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

No - It is not.
E-85 has less energy density per gallon than E-10 or E-0.

Sure on a one for one basis, a gallon of E-0 has more emissions n it than a gallon of E-85 does. That much is true. What they don't tell you is that it will take you 1.2 gallons of E-85 to do the work that E-0 could do. And the emissions in 1.2 gallons of E-85 will net out to the same emissions in a gallon of E-0.

Assuming you could tune to run on it, it will cost you more in the long run and your MPG will drop.
The last vehicle I had that was capable of running E-85 was a 2007 Nissan Titan with the Flex Fuel package. Big 5.6L engine in it. Same commute, same traffic, same weather - fairly consistent. THe sticker rated that truck at 10MPG. If I babied it, I could get 14 to 16 MPG on E-10. When I switched over to E-85, I got 9mpg. And that was in a vehicle that was meant to run the E-85.

I have some stations near us that are allowed to sell E-0 still. They are up in Prescott AZ. I am constantly AMAZED at the fuel efficiency and throttle response when I tank up with E-0. Even when the E-0 is 87 octane and the E-10 is Premium, I still go with E-0.

You really can't compare a factory flex tune to an aftermarket one. Factory flex tunes adjust the fueling, but that's about it. Aftermarket flex tunes also adjust timing and boost. The timing in particular has a huge effect on off-boost power which you typically don't get with factory flex tunes.

People always like to bring up that ethanol has a lower energy density, but what they ignore is that car engines are incredibly inefficient, on the order of 25%. While ethanol does have a lower energy density, the incredible increase in octane and cooling abilities allows you to re-tune the engine to increase its efficiency to more like 30%. In the end while your gas mileage will probably drop with E50, with a proper tune the difference is only maybe 5-10%. So in the end, yes it does end up cheaper, at least for me.

And that difference in throttle response between E0 and E10 that you mentioned, is 10x more impressive in favor of E50 when you actually tune for it (again, not a factory flex tune, but a proper aftermarket one that actually takes advantage of the octane and cooling instead of just fixing the AFR).

 

[PikkaGTR]

Ethanol *used to be the cheapest / cheaper option for octane
In California it isn't the case anymore.....at least for me
E85 is $4.39 and 91 is $7.09
To mix to e30 costs: $13.17+49.63= $62.80
Assuming 10 gallons ~96 octane
The 3 gals of Ethanol is 40% less energy dense than 91. So you've got the 1.8 gals giving you a total of 8.8 gals of gas energy

I can buy staright 96 octane gas from Sunol super stop near my place for $7.79
Or $68.55 for 8.8 gals
I'd take the 96 octane pump gas any day
No special mixes, no worries about measuring E content

 

[zrk]

Ethanol *used to be the cheapest / cheaper option for octane
In California it isn't the case anymore.....at least for me
E85 is $4.39 and 91 is $7.09
To mix to e30 costs: $13.17+49.63= $62.80
Assuming 10 gallons ~96 octane
The 3 gals of Ethanol is 40% less energy dense than 91. So you've got the 1.8 gals giving you a total of 8.8 gals of gas energy

I can buy staright 96 octane gas from Sunol super stop near my place for $7.79
Or $68.55 for 8.8 gals
I'd take the 96 octane pump gas any day
No special mixes, no worries about measuring E content

Or you can be like fast boys, and just buy Ignite Red by the Barrel at 12/gallon and be done with it. No more mixing, E90 always, and have that sweet 114 octane all the time, for a marginal amount of money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[PikkaGTR]

Or you can be like fast boys, and just buy Ignite Red by the Barrel at 12/gallon and be done with it. No more mixing, E90 always, and have that sweet 114 octane all the time, for a marginal amount of money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"Marginal" lol

I don't think 12 vs. 7.79 is marginal in the long run

 

[zrk]

"Marginal" lol

I don't think 12 vs. 7.79 is marginal in the long run

It's not cheap to go fast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[AHP]

Or you can be like fast boys, and just buy Ignite Red by the Barrel at 12/gallon and be done with it. No more mixing, E90 always, and have that sweet 114 octane all the time, for a marginal amount of money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Twisted Tuning]

Or you can be like fast boys, and just buy Ignite Red by the Barrel at 12/gallon and be done with it. No more mixing, E90 always, and have that sweet 114 octane all the time, for a marginal amount of money. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i'm a dealer for Ignite, and stock Barrels of Red for my car. but i actually run my car 65-75% of the time on pump E85. i use the Ignite when i think people will wanna get spicy on the cruises and etc, lol. Pump E85 is definitely cheaper than Ignite. but i use both haha.

 

[SD_MK]

I just love the slight smell of ethanol my car gives every cold start on E50. :3 It's not like my evo where it was pig rich, but i still get nostalgia from it lol

 

[Sereph102889]

I just love the slight smell of ethanol my car gives every cold start on E50. :3 It's not like my evo where it was pig rich, but i still get nostalgia from it lol

I just love how my garage smells very similar to shitty strains or marijuana because I have three VP racing jugs filled with 6 gallons of Pump E85. I had a few buddies walk into my garage and tell me it smelled like weed. I also feel as though it does because I grew up in a household with parents who couldn't let go of the 60's and 70's if you catch my drift.

 

[Deighvid]

Good conversation. It pops up every other month but always learn something new haha

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