Several HPDEs in, looking into mild track upgrades

[Eyelise]

This thread has hit home for multiple reasons. First of all how was Palmer? I live in central mass love LRP and Thompson is great. I've never been to Palmer but it is definitely on my list. I bought the Supra for a daily, my track car happens to be at Tailored Chassis solutions having a "bit" of work done. I did a fair amnt of HPDEs in the past but it's been a while so trying to get some seat time in the Supra while Seamus works his magic on my Lotus.

Sponsored

 

[FLtrackdays]

This thread has hit home for multiple reasons. First of all how was Palmer? I live in central mass love LRP and Thompson is great. I've never been to Palmer but it is definitely on my list. I bought the Supra for a daily, my track car happens to be at Tailored Chassis solutions having a "bit" of work done. I did a fair amnt of HPDEs in the past but it's been a while so trying to get some seat time in the Supra while Seamus works his magic on my Lotus.

Don’t do it dude! This Supra is like crack for any track rat . I wasn’t looking to get this heavily into it again. Maybe 1-2x per year I also wasn’t expecting the car to be so capable & so much damn fun right out of the box. I’m not sure I’d even drive my fit like a glove dedicated S2K track car, if I still had it. The AWE track exhaust with catless downpipe made it even worse. I could have quietly driven around town, probably fought off the addiction, & enjoyed the lane assist or something else the car has to offer.

Just sayin, be careful brotha. She’s fantastic on track!

 

[Eyelise]

I do love it as a daily so doing my best to resist. I think I'll add the Eibach front sway bar for shits and giggles and eventually upgrade the PSS tires to something appropriate for both street and track.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Thompson today. Let's go!!!

 

[decodeddiesel]

I wanted to add a little about my HPDE yesterday at Thompson Speedway in Thompson Connecticut with SCDA. This was my 2nd event at Thompson with SCDA, and it was a great day of track driving.

Conditions:

The weather was mostly sunny, highs in the low 70s. It had rained the night before, but the maintenance crew at Thompson was hard at work at 7:00am when I showed up blowing off the puddles. It stayed crisp and clear all day, then was an absolutely torrential downpour on my ride home.

My instructor for the day was named Steve. He is currently racing an old Honda CRX with a B16 swap in the Champ Car Endurance series. Both he and his son are instructors, and I knew I was in good hands.

On-Track:

It was a lot less crowded than my other events have been this year. They broke the Novice group into Novice 1 which had 1st time track drivers and Novice 2 which had drivers with 1-5 days under their belts. It never felt crowded and I had a lot of open track during all of my sessions to enjoy. Because of this I was able to massively improve on the track without having to deal with typical novice traffic. I actually told my instructor that I felt slower during my 3rd and 4th sessions, and he laughed and said that's normal. I am driving a lot smoother and cleaner now and getting a lot more consistent. He is recommending that I be moved up to Intermediate 1 (Blue) immediately.

I must say, the mods are REALLY nice on this car at this point. The 275 square V730s are very VERY nice. I started at 25 psi cold and freaked out my ECU, thanks @razorlab for posting in an older thread about how to deal with this. This worked out perfectly, hot pressures in the 30-32 PSI range, VERY consistent wear.

Mod Impressions:

The non-adjustable Cusco sway bars, and the SPL LCAs/Toe Arms are perfect. The car has VERY mild oversteer at the limit, and feels extremely balanced now. I'm running -3 degrees of camber in the front and a touch of toe in in the back, which feel GREAT. Turn-in is SOOOOOO much better now. The Project-µ pads work very well with the 200tw tires, and I experienced a very consistent pedal feel with absolutely no fade thanks to the SS lines and MC brace. I'll do several more events with my current setup, but the car is just begging for coil-overs now. I am really considering Ohlins R&T with Millway Camber plates through 3DM or MCS 1-way through AR Motorsports. I think better damping and slightly heavier springs would really push this car to the next level on track.

Some issues:

There is a very sketchy braking section on Thompson where you exit the "Nascar surface" and cross back into the road course surface. There's an unsettling bump, but if you really want to hit Turn 9 you have to wait until after the car is over the bump and then brake really late and late apex Turn 9 to set-up for an immediate Turn 10. When the car was stock I hit the bump at about 80 MPH and it immediately triggered rear bump steer that felt awful and was terrifying. I'd say the toe arms, "track alignment", and toe lock-outs cured 80% of the wheel hop/bump steer issues. I think the traction arms will help even more so they are on my short list of mods.

The car is definitely pulling power. I am not data logging yet, but I felt a significant reduction in power at the end of the day. I am hoping a heatshield, AA GESI DP, and a well designed intake might help reduce the issue, but it really looks like a Wagner manifold or something similar is the real solution for anything more than stock power. Even an ECUTEK custom tune is getting the IATs too high after 25 minutes on-track.

I have some pretty severe hearing issues and I just can't hear the engine well in the car. I turned off the fake engine noise, and the stock exhaust/intake even in Sport mode is too quiet with the windows down. Again, I am hoping a GESI DP and an intake might help with this, otherwise I'm going to have to look into some sort shift light integrated into a data logger. The wind noise over 100 mph just drowns out everything in the car.

I'm thinking going to a true "Stage 2" with a new tune, a GESI downpipe, and an upgraded intercooler is probably the way to go, but I am more interested in the coil-overs first.

Summary:

I'll be doing 3 more events at Thompson this year, along with more days at Lime Rock and Palmer! Can't wait to do some solo driving, and get a lap timer/data logger. The track time is by FAR the best "mod" I've done and it's really paying off. I am definitely becoming a better driver, but I still have so much to learn. I'm ready to take the next step where an instructor is optional, my car will weight ~200 lbs less, and I can start driving the car solo on-track.

 

[razorlab]

Awesome!

Also, looks like the bug has officially bit you, haha!

 

[Eyelise]

Yup rabbit hole claims another victim.

I spent the day at Club Motorsports CMS in NH. Man talk about track toys wow. Lots of very fast and expensive cars. It was a member day and there was a fundraiser going on so not a typical HPDE. There were two motorcycle run groups and two car run grps. Fortunately in my grp (beginner and novice solo) there were not that many cars.

I've been at the track 3 times now just trying to get to know the car. I really was slow as crap. I really need work on my lines. I'll be booking an instructor for the next few track days. The driver in my situation needs a lot more work than the car.

I did notice quite a bit of lean and body movement. I've been thinking about adding sway bars starting with the front. Maybe the adjustable Eibach would be reasonable.

 

[Kmj442]

The car is definitely pulling power. I am not data logging yet, but I felt a significant reduction in power at the end of the day. I am hoping a heatshield, AA GESI DP, and a well designed intake might help reduce the issue, but it really looks like a Wagner manifold or something similar is the real solution for anything more than stock power. Even an ECUTEK custom tune is getting the IATs too high after 25 minutes on-track.

I noticed this on my last track day too. Same general temps outside, I have a MST v2 intake, AA catted DP, turbo heatshield, still pulling timing a bit, certainly noticed on the back straights at lightning.I have a JB4 with custom tune but was running stock tune all day so I know that wasn't the issue. I think my next mod is either going to be a new vented hood, or an intake, I'm leaning intake route but the hood may be close behind because that heat needs to go somewhere, I just don't want a CF hood, much rather have it paint matched.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Yup rabbit hole claims another victim.

I spent the day at Club Motorsports CMS in NH. Man talk about track toys wow. Lots of very fast and expensive cars. It was a member day and there was a fundraiser going on so not a typical HPDE. There were two motorcycle run groups and two car run grps. Fortunately in my grp (beginner and novice solo) there were not that many cars.

I've been at the track 3 times now just trying to get to know the car. I really was slow as crap. I really need work on my lines. I'll be booking an instructor for the next few track days. The driver in my situation needs a lot more work than the car.

I did notice quite a bit of lean and body movement. I've been thinking about adding sway bars starting with the front. Maybe the adjustable Eibach would be reasonable.

I really like how my car has reacted to sway bars. I like the Cusco even though they're non adjustable because they have plenty of clearance with the SPL LCAs and the combination really works well right out of the box.

Also I'm going with coilovers so I'll be able to dial out a bit more body roll with the higher spring rate in the future. Honestly though the car is very flat in corners and the 28mm FSB really keeps the car composed on turn-in.

I did get a chance to try my suspension mods with the stock wheels and OEM PSSs as well as square 18s with 275-35/18 V730s. Just the mods alone are a huge improvement.

Are you still on the stock pads/fluid? The Project-μ pads are a game changer on track and have fantastic street manors.

 

[decodeddiesel]

I noticed this on my last track day too. Same general temps outside, I have a MST v2 intake, AA catted DP, turbo heatshield, still pulling timing a bit, certainly noticed on the back straights at lightning.I have a JB4 with custom tune but was running stock tune all day so I know that wasn't the issue. I think my next mod is either going to be a new vented hood, or an intake, I'm leaning intake route but the hood may be close behind because that heat needs to go somewhere, I just don't want a CF hood, much rather have it paint matched.

Really good info here. A bit bummed to hear that the bolt-ons didn't help that much, but I'm not that surprised. The Supra GT4 is basically a 3.0 with a tune and a "race exhaust" and they've got a big ol' vent.

I do wonder what the Supra GT4 uses to keep the IATs at bay. We know at a minimum they have that huge hood vent and that ram-air intake in the nose. I'm really curious if they have a different manifold/intercooler.

I think @razorlab has shown just how critical ventilation to the engine bay really is with his data logging. I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to take a cutting tool to that beautiful hood, but unpainted CF is ugly.

Honestly though, I'm more interested in "finishing" my suspension before I dig into the power issues on my car.

 

[Kmj442]

I don't have a complete suspension, I have the sways (front and rear) from aFe set to the recommend settings (I forget off the top of my head what those are), PS4S tires on a non square setup 9.5/10.5, brake cooling kit from Verus (currently putting on paragon p3 pads and doing a brake flush), and rear diff cooling plate from verus.

I think this winter will be intake manifold time, I'm leaning wagner, while not the best its like 2/3 the price of the EOS which from what I've seen is better but I'm not planning on going CRAZY with power.

 

[Eyelise]

Yes I am on stock everything and plan to daily drive the Supra so really don't want to negatively impact street characteristics. Do you think the FSB alone is a reasonable option? Also swapping brake fluid and bracing the master is a no brainer but high metallic squealing brake pads is another issue.

 

[ciccio90]

Following this thread closely. I have also been lapping for close to a decade now and had the Supra out yesterday. What a fantastic little package out of the box. Thoroughly impressed.

With that said, I have pads, high heat fluid, 18x11 square wheels on their way.
I am worried with my Eibach springs 295 squares won't fit but I'll find out the hard way.

op, what would you say single handedly made the biggest difference outside of brakes so far?

 

[Eyelise]

Following this thread closely. I have also been lapping for close to a decade now and had the Supra out yesterday. What a fantastic little package out of the box. Thoroughly impressed.

With that said, I have pads, high heat fluid, 18x11 square wheels on their way.
I am worried with my Eibach springs 295 squares won't fit but I'll find out the hard way.

op, what would you say single handedly made the biggest difference outside of brakes so far?

I had heard you can run 275 tires on the front with OEM wheels. Obviously you may be lowered and that is a wider wheel. Depending on tire options I was planning 275 square on OEM wheels when I move to 200 tread rated tires.

 

[razorlab]

Really good info here. A bit bummed to hear that the bolt-ons didn't help that much, but I'm not that surprised. The Supra GT4 is basically a 3.0 with a tune and a "race exhaust" and they've got a big ol' vent.

I do wonder what the Supra GT4 uses to keep the IATs at bay. We know at a minimum they have that huge hood vent and that ram-air intake in the nose. I'm really curious if they have a different manifold/intercooler.

I think @razorlab has shown just how critical ventilation to the engine bay really is with his data logging. I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to take a cutting tool to that beautiful hood, but unpainted CF is ugly.

Honestly though, I'm more interested in "finishing" my suspension before I dig into the power issues on my car.

Just added some more data with my Wagner intake manifold: https://www.supramkv.com/threads/intake-manifolds.9182/page-20#post-286090

Hood vent should be here in a week or so.

The GT4 has the whole front opened up for a bunch more cooling, no cruise radar thing in the way, etc. They still run the OEM intake manifold.

Also keep in mind the GT4 runs a full standalone engine management system and an array of extra sensors. I'm going to assume they are a bit more aggressive on how little timing gets pulled with higher intake temps. Race car engine life expectations are a bit different than street cars.

Sponsored