Supra is pulling to the right after lowering

[Thraxbert]

This is a bit of an oversimplification and exaggeration. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really disagreeing with your observations. The problem is all these problems, while definitely real, do not typically start becoming a problem until a car starts to approach “slammed” status. For the vast majority of us, me included, who only conservatively lower our cars, we have none of these issues. In most cases, OEM parts have sufficient adjustability to address the changes that happen when we slap on a set of lowering springs and proceed to send it. We’ve been lowering cars an inch or inch and a half or so forever without issue. And there are a bunch of us on this forum that have done so with our Supras without issue. There is something specific to this car and I seriously doubt it’s a more broad “lowering problem” unless H and R springs drop the car by an excessive amount.

In the case of many Supras I've seen on the rack, the front camber is inconsistent from the factory and is non-adjustable. This will get significantly worse when you lower the car. It will start to pull. I also get the sense that this appears to be an H&R problem as they seem to be the most popular spring choice on the forum, which simply raises the odds that someone will talk about H&R versus some other spring.

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[FLtrackdays]

This is not specifically an H&R problem. It's a lowering problem.

Lowering a car intrinsically and negatively compromises the alignment: camber goes more negative, toe goes more in, bumpsteer increases, roll center is pushed down and makes handling unpredictable.

The only way to fix all of this is with an alignment plus a full complement of adjustable control arms that can correct all the angles. The OEM Supra control arms do not offer complete control of the alignment, so there are some issues that can occur:

1. OEM front camber cannot be controlled, so one side may be cambered more than another. Car will pull.

2. Thrust angle may become off, leaving the car in a natural state where the full body is pointing ahead left or ahead right by a few degrees. Car will pull.

3. You'll feel more bumpsteer. Dips and divots on the road will pull your steering wheel in your hands.

4. Lowering a car can also change front caster, meaning one wheel is ahead of the other by 1-2 degrees. This will also make the car naturally inclined to drift.

A good OEM alignment can fix most of these issues and leave the car pretty drivable. But all cars need a full complement of adjustable control arms, plus roll center correction in the front, to fix all of them. This is the risk you run of just slapping springs on and sending it.

Well said Robert! One pizza buffet won’t necessarily give you a heart attack but if you keep it up, with a sedentary lifestyle, it surely is not ideal for keeping blood flowing to all the right places . I love these straightforward simplistic explanations Too many people just don’t get it otherwise. And some are like me with basic knowledge. So I really appreciate your explanation!!!

I’m going to copy and past this for a Porsche buddy that keeps harassing his dealer because he installed lowering springs and he wants Porshce to keep fixing his bent OEM control arms. Porsche didn’t even install them. It’s a Macan! I’m pretty sure it wasn’t made for that kind of snap geometry change decision. And yes he’s having tire wear problems too

 

[jchadwell]

In the case of many Supras I've seen on the rack, the front camber is inconsistent from the factory and is non-adjustable. This will get significantly worse when you lower the car. It will start to pull. I also get the sense that this appears to be an H&R problem as they seem to be the most popular spring choice on the forum, which simply raises the odds that someone will talk about H&R versus some other spring.

This is what I’m saying. If the camber is that inconsistent from the factory to the point it’s enough to cause a pull, that is a car-specific issue and not “lowering issue”. Also, when I was deciding my suspension choices I inquired with others here and determined we do not have significant camber gain when moderately lowering our Supras. My factory spec in front was 1.8 and 1.9. If that had gone to maybe 2.3 to 2.5 after lowering I would maybe considered not adding camber plates. However, the consensus was minimal camber gain. Like 2.0 to 2.1 is the most anyone reported if I remember correctly. So I added camber plates as well and now run 3.0 in front and 2.5 rear. It’s a conservative set up with slightly less than an inch drop but I (and most others) have zero issues. My dealer has no problem aligning the car and it doesn’t need all the aftermarket parts you talked about to do so, the car tracks straight as an arrow, I really can’t tell a difference in ride quality, and most importantly the car is an absolute beast for autocross which was my goal (I consistently pax top 3 with my local club and top 5 to 10 when I go to the occasional bigger regional type events).

 

[jchadwell]

Well said Robert! One pizza buffet won’t necessarily give you a heart attack but if you keep it up, with a sedentary lifestyle, it surely is not ideal for keeping blood flowing to all the right places . I love these straightforward simplistic explanations Too many people just don’t get it otherwise. And some are like me with basic knowledge. So I really appreciate your explanation!!!

I’m going to copy and past this for a Porsche buddy that keeps harassing his dealer because he installed lowering springs and he wants Porshce to keep fixing his bent OEM control arms. Porsche didn’t even install them. It’s a Macan! I’m pretty sure it wasn’t made for that kind of snap geometry change decision. And yes he’s having tire wear problems too

If I were a betting person, I would wager your Macan friend lowered his car by several inches. To the point the factory adjustment abilities were exceeded. I would also wager if he instead only lowered a more moderate amount he wouldn’t be having those issues.

 

[Feldro]

For my 2023 MT. Had the H&R Springs installed (have stock wheels and suspension parts) by a performance shop. If I center the steering wheel, it drives straight, and then let go, it will always start to drift right. Even after swapping the front wheels left to right. Here is the latest alignment sheet after a few weeks of the springs installed. They also checked the front right spring to make sure it was seated properly. Maybe I need to ask them to check front roll center ? If that needs adjusted, will that require aftermarket parts?

 

[FLtrackdays]

For my 2023 MT. Had the H&R Springs installed (have stock wheels and suspension parts) by a performance shop. If I center the steering wheel, it drives straight, and then let go, it will always start to drift right. Even after swapping the front wheels left to right. Here is the latest alignment sheet after a few weeks of the springs installed. They also checked the front right spring to make sure it was seated properly. Maybe I need to ask them to check front roll center ? If that needs adjusted, will that require aftermarket parts?

Not sure where you got the alignment done but BMW wasn’t the best for me. My Toyota dealer, even worse. Found a fantastic alignment shop that knew more than the basics and night and day difference, in my case. Might be worth asking a local race shop who they recommend.

 

[MSport]

For my 2023 MT. Had the H&R Springs installed (have stock wheels and suspension parts) by a performance shop. If I center the steering wheel, it drives straight, and then let go, it will always start to drift right. Even after swapping the front wheels left to right. Here is the latest alignment sheet after a few weeks of the springs installed. They also checked the front right spring to make sure it was seated properly. Maybe I need to ask them to check front roll center ? If that needs adjusted, will that require aftermarket parts?

my alignment shop was only able to get everything to -1.5 all the way around.

 

[MSport]

This is what I’m saying. If the camber is that inconsistent from the factory to the point it’s enough to cause a pull, that is a car-specific issue and not “lowering issue”. Also, when I was deciding my suspension choices I inquired with others here and determined we do not have significant camber gain when moderately lowering our Supras. My factory spec in front was 1.8 and 1.9. If that had gone to maybe 2.3 to 2.5 after lowering I would maybe considered not adding camber plates. However, the consensus was minimal camber gain. Like 2.0 to 2.1 is the most anyone reported if I remember correctly. So I added camber plates as well and now run 3.0 in front and 2.5 rear. It’s a conservative set up with slightly less than an inch drop but I (and most others) have zero issues. My dealer has no problem aligning the car and it doesn’t need all the aftermarket parts you talked about to do so, the car tracks straight as an arrow, I really can’t tell a difference in ride quality, and most importantly the car is an absolute beast for autocross which was my goal (I consistently pax top 3 with my local club and top 5 to 10 when I go to the occasional bigger regional type events).

I’ve decided I can’t live with the pull. Are you saying that camber plates alone should be able to fix my problem?

 

[3TMagnetMan]

This is my alignment after installing HKS Springs and Eibach sway
s and Verus Front camber plates. car runs straight and hits corners nicely

 

[jchadwell]

I’ve decided I can’t live with the pull. Are you saying that camber plates alone should be able to fix my problem?

No. I seriously doubt plates would make any difference since your camber is already consistent on both sides. Camber plates only benefit those of us wanting/needing 2.5 or more camber for autocross and track purposes. Your alignment specs seemed good to me. The castor is higher than I’ve typically seen but that’s also consistent side to side so I don’t see how that would cause a pull either. Sorry but my alignment knowledge is limited to aggressive autocross/track settings but I’m not knowledgeable enough to diagnose why a car would pull.
I think someone else mentioned trying to find a race shop. I think if I were having your issue even after confirming good alignment specs I’d look for help there. Good luck!

 

[jchadwell]

And just spitballing here. I have no idea if what I’m about to say is even possible but…. Is it possible for an individual spring to have a manufacturing defect of some kind but still install and sit correctly and still show a correct ride height? I can’t picture in my head what that could possibly involve but just throwing it out there.
Here’s another idea. If you are doing springs simply for looks, maybe try a different set that has similar specs as the H&Rs. I personally love my euro spec Eibach springs but there are others. It might be a hassle (and additional expense if you can’t do the install yourself) but that would very quickly tell you if it’s the springs or something else causing the pull.

 

[FLtrackdays]

No. I seriously doubt plates would make any difference since your camber is already consistent on both sides. Camber plates only benefit those of us wanting/needing 2.5 or more camber for autocross and track purposes. Your alignment specs seemed good to me. The castor is higher than I’ve typically seen but that’s also consistent side to side so I don’t see how that would cause a pull either. Sorry but my alignment knowledge is limited to aggressive autocross/track settings but I’m not knowledgeable enough to diagnose why a car would pull.
I think someone else mentioned trying to find a race shop. I think if I were having your issue even after confirming good alignment specs I’d look for help there. Good luck!

Good points.

Also just throwing it out there… but a really soft tire (once overheated) can become worn incorrectly for multiple reasons. Usually swapping left to right can help. Reducing tire pressure as the day goes on while tracking is a must. Assuming he’s doing all those things. Otherwise, I’d try another set of tires and see if she’s still pulling. Then I’d go to a race alignment shop and get er picked over.

 

[Kolme]

I went to a mom and pop (well uncle and uncle) alignment shop after adding regular H&Rs - it was the place recommended to me by my installer (a local Supra nut).

Outside the shop were a bunch of lowered imports - cool place. He looked at the car from a window - asked if on springs or coil overs, gave me an $80 price and was done in like 20minutes. The car prior to alignment and springs had a super subtle right pull, which didn’t change really. The aligner (a like 70yo Asian gentleman) told me Supra were poorly aligned from the factory and he made adjustments “out of spec” to correct the issues, which would worsen on springs. Car feels great - slight right pull is unchanged. Of note, I let the springs settle for a good week or two before the alignment.

 

[jtsang25]

Is your steering column aligned?

 

[MSport]

Is your steering column aligned?

just saw this video pop up makes me want to adjust tie rods

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