The Supra vs Z4!

[Supra93]

So here is a quick overlapped side shots of the Supra coupe and Z5 roadster. I believe the two prototypes are using the same wheels, so I just matched them up. It looks like they will both have the same wheelbase. The coupe appears to have a little more of a over hang.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I'm starting to get a feeling the new "Supra" will just be a reskin Z5 dressed up to look like a mini tone down FT-1.

Sponsored

 

[HKz]

I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I'm starting to get a feeling the new "Supra" will just be a reskin Z5 dressed up to look like a mini tone down FT-1. View attachment 1096

no duh? this is exactly why I was never prepared to accept such an outcome....if the BMW/Toyota rumors were all true then obviously this was the only possible outcome, what else did you expect? The Supra will be the 124 Spider and the Z5 will be the Miata (the conclusions about the Fiata/Miata should tell you where this is heading - nearly everyone much prefers the Miata)

 

[jm6k]

no duh? this is exactly why I was never prepared to accept such an outcome....if the BMW/Toyota rumors were all true then obviously this was the only possible outcome, what else did you expect? The Supra will be the 124 Spider and the Z5 will be the Miata (the conclusions about the Fiata/Miata should tell you where this is heading - nearly everyone much prefers the Miata)

Yeah, I thought this was pretty much accepted at this point. Toyota has said recently that it will be a different car, but it's no really clear what that means at this point. Different car or not, you put them side by side and yes, the dimensions will be nearly identical.

As far as Miata vs Fiat, aside from the Miata RF, I'd take the 124 Spider just for the noise that it makes. I'll always prefer a coupe so I think the Toyota will be an improvement over the BMW either way, but hopefully it makes the better noises of the two as well.

 

[Supra93]

no duh? this is exactly why I was never prepared to accept such an outcome....if the BMW/Toyota rumors were all true then obviously this was the only possible outcome, what else did you expect? The Supra will be the 124 Spider and the Z5 will be the Miata (the conclusions about the Fiata/Miata should tell you where this is heading - nearly everyone much prefers the Miata)

I can't speak for everyone but I was expecting a slightly different proportion from the BMW. Also a in house drivetrain would be nice; which I believe could still be possible.

Yeah, I thought this was pretty much accepted at this point. Toyota has said recently that it will be a different car, but it's no really clear what that means at this point. Different car or not, you put them side by side and yes, the dimensions will be nearly identical.

As far as Miata vs Fiat, aside from the Miata RF, I'd take the 124 Spider just for the noise that it makes. I'll always prefer a coupe so I think the Toyota will be an improvement over the BMW either way, but hopefully it makes the better noises of the two as well.

I recall an older statement where a BMW spokesperson said the two will not share any sheet metal.

X2, coupe > roadster for me.

 

[jm6k]

I recall an older statement where a BMW spokesperson said the two will not share any sheet metal.

I believe that's likely true for the exterior. Still can be very similar dimensions though.

 

[gymratter]

im hoping longer hood means bigger motor

 

[HKz]

Yeah, I thought this was pretty much accepted at this point. Toyota has said recently that it will be a different car, but it's no really clear what that means at this point. Different car or not, you put them side by side and yes, the dimensions will be nearly identical.

As far as Miata vs Fiat, aside from the Miata RF, I'd take the 124 Spider just for the noise that it makes. I'll always prefer a coupe so I think the Toyota will be an improvement over the BMW either way, but hopefully it makes the better noises of the two as well.

Lol what? You're in the minority..I thought virtually everyone thus far has agreed the Fiata sounds like crap and nearly all reviews much prefer the driving dynamics of the Miata..

Fiat’s old Twincam four was a rev-happy little thing that made a wonderful sound and produced practically no torque. It bore more resemblance to the original Miata’s 1.6-liter engine than it does to Fiat’s new MultiAir turbocharged four, which revs only reluctantly, makes practically no sound at all, but produces gobs of torque from off-idle to the 6500-rpm redline.

I can't speak for everyone but I was expecting a slightly different proportion from the BMW. Also a in house drivetrain would be nice; which I believe could still be possible.



I recall an older statement where a BMW spokesperson said the two will not share any sheet metal.

X2, coupe > roadster for me.

...they won't share any sheet metal as though that is somehow going to affect the powertrain and driving dynamics...?...I admit my denial from the beginning of this whole charade but at this point it is pretty obvious that if Toyota was using this to save costs they aren't going to change the wheelbase which would only add additional engineering costs to the project..they are just going to do what Fiat did with Mazda's chassis to change the overhangs, sheet metal and use their own engine...still bothers me greatly that their potential halo coupe is going to just be the result of a cost savings development. still waiting to be surprised & amazed

im hoping longer hood means bigger motor

who said there is a longer hood? overhang lengths dictate nothing when it comes to the engine size

 

[jm6k]

Lol what? You're in the minority..I thought virtually everyone thus far has agreed the Fiata sounds like crap and nearly all reviews much prefer the driving dynamics of the Miata..

I haven't heard that at all as far as the sound goes. I haven't looked into comparison reviews, but I've seen quite a few statements about the sound of the 124. I mean it's the same engine as the 500 Abarth which has always been touted as making amazing sounds as well, and I know personally I love the sound of those cars. Haven't heard the 124 aside from videos yet. Personal preference I guess. I'd be inclined to believe you on the driving dynamics though.

The Rally-spec 124 sounds pretty damn good. Same engine, more power.

 

[HKz]

I haven't heard that at all as far as the sound goes. I haven't looked into comparison reviews, but I've seen quite a few statements about the sound of the 124. I mean it's the same engine as the 500 Abarth which has always been touted as making amazing sounds as well, and I know personally I love the sound of those cars. Haven't heard the 124 aside from videos yet. Personal preference I guess. I'd be inclined to believe you on the driving dynamics though.

The Rally-spec 124 sounds pretty damn good. Same engine, more power.

you're listening to the exhaust in virtually all those clips which is not really accurate unless you ain't driving..you can easily give a Miata a better sounding exhaust than that lol..sure you can hear some of the exhaust with the top down but the intake and engine sounds are not very pleasing from what you can hear..admittedly as C&D pointed out it is pretty quiet, but all you hear is just an unsatisfactory whooshing sound.

go to 9:16

 

[Supra93]

...they won't share any sheet metal as though that is somehow going to affect the powertrain and driving dynamics...?...I admit my denial from the beginning of this whole charade but at this point it is pretty obvious that if Toyota was using this to save costs they aren't going to change the wheelbase which would only add additional engineering costs to the project..they are just going to do what Fiat did with Mazda's chassis to change the overhangs, sheet metal and use their own engine...still bothers me greatly that their potential halo coupe is going to just be the result of a cost savings development. still waiting to be surprised & amazed

Obviously we were just talking about appearances, but I'm hoping the coupe will have a stiffer feel and weight less than the roadster. I don't think most people here mind a co developed chassis, but a Toyota drivetrain would be nice.

 

[jm6k]

you're listening to the exhaust in virtually all those clips which is not really accurate unless you ain't driving..you can easily give a Miata a better sounding exhaust than that lol..sure you can hear some of the exhaust with the top down but the intake and engine sounds are not very pleasing from what you can hear..admittedly as C&D pointed out it is pretty quiet, but all you hear is just an unsatisfactory whooshing sound.

go to 9:16

Even that guys says it sounds better than the Miata, he only goes back and says he still wishes it were louder like the 500 Abarth. I agree with that. The 500 has no muffler. I don't know why they put a muffler on the 124. I still haven't seen anyone who says the 124 sounds like crap, or even remotely so. I'll have to look for C&D's review that you're talking about.

I like them both, but I do think the Miata looks much better and it seems like the greatest benefit is it's power band. The video you showed where the Fiat is out of boost at 5500rpm is pretty disappointing.

 

[HKz]

Obviously we were just talking about appearances, but I'm hoping the coupe will have a stiffer feel and weight less than the roadster. I don't think most people here mind a co developed chassis, but a Toyota drivetrain would be nice.

I know you're talking about appearances, I was merely asserting that those changes shouldn't really be something to write home about...just because it comes from the factory that way, in truth it is the same concept as adding a body kit. I care much more about the mechanical aspects. And if you've actually followed Toyota's journey in performance models I'm not sure you would want a powertrain from them. We all love the 2JZ-GTE and 4A-GE but the truth is just like nearly every Toyota engine they were all behind on power from the factory (note: just behind on power, not underpowered as many people like to say about the 86) so cue the hoards of "enthusiasts" who will undoubtedly say the new Supra is slow (I'm happy to be wrong) if it has a Toyota powertrain...sadly the problem has always been that Toyota has to juggle their quality/durability image with high performance which will always be counterproductive to the former goal. It could have been possibly more interesting if it was Toyota's RWD platform/chassis and BMW's straight 6 + tranny but it probably still isn't the perfect solution either.

Even that guys says it sounds better than the Miata, he only goes back and says he still wishes it were louder like the 500 Abarth. I agree with that. The 500 has no muffler. I don't know why they put a muffler on the 124. I still haven't seen anyone who says the 124 sounds like crap, or even remotely so. I'll have to look for C&D's review that you're talking about.

I like them both, but I do think the Miata looks much better and it seems like the greatest benefit is it's power band. The video you showed where the Fiat is out of boost at 5500rpm is pretty disappointing.

lol I quoted it to you earlier

Fiat’s old Twincam four was a rev-happy little thing that made a wonderful sound and produced practically no torque. It bore more resemblance to the original Miata’s 1.6-liter engine than it does to Fiat’s new MultiAir turbocharged four, which revs only reluctantly, makes practically no sound at all, but produces gobs of torque from off-idle to the 6500-rpm redline.

I like the looks of both of them but it still doesn't hide the fact that the Fiata is just a body kit and drivetrain swap...as far as the engine, that is pretty typical of nearly every small turbocharged engine out there. Look at (or go out and feel) the powerband of the ecoboost on the Mustang at the top of the revv range. Unfortunately it is a trade off putting the torque as low as possible...personally I don't like it either since I thought revving out a sports car to the redline was part of the enjoyment in driving one.

 

[Yoyoma]

Reading the discussions here about BMW vs Toyota engine for the new Supra got me thinking... will the tuning potential and aftermarket be better if the car gets BMW or Toyota engines?

I'd still rather see the Supra powered only by Toyota engines, but if the Supra gets the BMW M2's N55 engine, I know there's a world of well tested tuning options already for that motor at least.

 

[HKz]

..since the end of the MK4 Supra I would lean towards the tuning capability of BMW engines but if we include the Toyota era during and before the 2JZ-GTE then I would prefer Toyota tuning.

 

[jm6k]

It's a high performance turbocharged sports car. The aftermarket will go to whichever engine they put in it. Of course the BMW aftermarket is already established and ready to go so there's a lot less to figure out from the start.

Sponsored