PerformanceSound
Well-Known Member
Toyota is fully aware of a “Supra killer” Nismo Z that’s coming….and they are prepared.The Z fans reading this will lose their shit lmfao.
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Toyota is fully aware of a “Supra killer” Nismo Z that’s coming….and they are prepared.The Z fans reading this will lose their shit lmfao.
I've noticed that and I appreciate it from ToyotaYes and no. Depending on logistics and where they are coming from, the price of the vehicle maybe more or the same. For example, if Toyota is able to source 6 piston calipers from Subaru’s STI, the price may not be much more. However, if Toyota sources it from say an M car, then there will be a premium. Reason being Toyota has a very close manufacturing relationship with Subaru, and more of a business relationship with BMW. Since the STI brakes are Brembo OEM, they might be able to get them easier from Italy directly to Magna. Just as an example, not saying they will be STI brakes.
Now, I will say my source has mentioned Akibono several times. Whether that is pads, rotors, or calipers….I don’t know, yet. One thing I will say (and I’ve hinted at this in the past), Toyota maybe working backwards on development of the MKV platform to be “more” Toyota than BMW. What I mean is, they maybe bringing in other companies to enhance the MKV to be even more apart than the Z4. I know people think I’m crazy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Yamaha will have some hand in upcoming enhancements….what those are I don’t know for sure, but my source has mentioned Yamaha as well. Remember, Maga Steyr isn’t a BMW factory….it is designed to accept parts from all over the world.
The new Supra gearbox is BMW part # GS6L50TZ.ZF is not a part of BMW, they are simply an OEM supplier to BMW. Just like Magna-Steyr manufacture cars for BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes and Toyota.
Does this mean the S6-50 is used somewhere in BMW range? Possibly. Given the ZF naming convention, the true transmission code will be able to decode the full extent of 'bespoke' the transmission is.
You answered it yourself!They are both BMW-exclusive units manufactured by ZF.
The ZF 'S6' transmission range is not exclusive to BMW. They are also used in Jaguar (and others from memory) and the large 650 units are used in Ford trucks (again from memory)The new Supra gearbox is BMW part # GS6L50TZ.
The older Z4 gearbox (basis for the new one) is BMW part # GS6L40LZ.
They are both BMW-exclusive units manufactured by ZF.
The units I gave part #s for are exclusive to BMW and have BMW-specific interfaces. ZF makes S6 transmissions for other manufacturers as well but it's not relevant to the discussion. I feel like we're going around in circles here with people stating common information that is well known in the industry and then trying to make it into some sort of "evidence". You don't need to keep stating the obvious. I have worked in the industry for over 30 years and know my way around.The ZF 'S6' transmission range is not exclusive to BMW.
The L,40,L and Z are all codes based on torque rating, gear ratios, output options. D = diesel, B= Benzin (German for petrol)
Like actually able to order? Or dealer just took your deposit?Also, 6MT now available to order in Australia. Price not confirmed yet. Put my order in this morning.
In their system as configurable. So they've got my order in, but no pricing has been released yet, so no deposit or anything signed as of yet.Like actually able to order? Or dealer just took your deposit?
god I would love to see a Yamaha exhaust.Yes and no. Depending on logistics and where they are coming from, the price of the vehicle maybe more or the same. For example, if Toyota is able to source 6 piston calipers from Subaru’s STI, the price may not be much more. However, if Toyota sources it from say an M car, then there will be a premium. Reason being Toyota has a very close manufacturing relationship with Subaru, and more of a business relationship with BMW. Since the STI brakes are Brembo OEM, they might be able to get them easier from Italy directly to Magna. Just as an example, not saying they will be STI brakes.
Now, I will say my source has mentioned Akibono several times. Whether that is pads, rotors, or calipers….I don’t know, yet. One thing I will say (and I’ve hinted at this in the past), Toyota maybe working backwards on development of the MKV platform to be “more” Toyota than BMW. What I mean is, they maybe bringing in other companies to enhance the MKV to be even more apart than the Z4. I know people think I’m crazy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Yamaha will have some hand in upcoming enhancements….what those are I don’t know for sure, but my source has mentioned Yamaha as well. Remember, Maga Steyr isn’t a BMW factory….it is designed to accept parts from all over the world.
I believe the same. I don’t know for sure yet if it’s cylinder head work because there was mention of “other firms” coming in to assist with emissions systems. So, could be emissions components, intake/exhaust, or even head work. I hope it’s not just acoustics….should know more soon.god I would love to see a Yamaha exhaust.
I know you’re joking here but most people don’t know Apple uses Samsung parts in their phones. Used to have to explain this all the time when I worked for AppleFuck Samsung
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People really just don't understand how major suppliers operate.
Your logic is flawed...if Toyota wants customisation on the 6MT (which they did), they would approach ZF, not BMW. What ZF will do and did, was to try and reuse as many existing components as possible to reduce cost.The units I gave part #s for are exclusive to BMW and have BMW-specific interfaces. ZF makes S6 transmissions for other manufacturers as well but it's not relevant to the discussion. I feel like we're going around in circles here with people stating common information that is well known in the industry and then trying to make it into some sort of "evidence". You don't need to keep stating the obvious. I have worked in the industry for over 30 years and know my way around.
Anyone who thinks Toyota went directly to ZF to make a GR-specific transmission is wrong and going down the same road of delusion we saw 3-4 years ago when everybody was trying to play up the Toyota involvement and play down the BMW contribution. I even remember people falsely claiming Toyota had a hand in the original B58 development along these same lines. It's all nonsense.
Toyota worked with BMW to adapt an existing BMW manual transmission for the Supra, and they did this by following the same process BMW uses internally across their gearbox portfolio. Changes to the gearset, acoustic package, thermal management, and lubrication schedule are all based on internal BMW parts-bin engineering. In the end, the result is a Supra-specific BMW transmission that is manufactured by ZF and carries a BMW part #.
Y'all can spin that any way you want if it makes you feel better and gives the car some extra special Toyota validation, but it's a total stretch of the imagination to think this was a GR transmission. Toyota could have developed the transmission with their excellent in house capabilities and then gone to Aisin who they already have a relationship with, resulting in a true Toyota/GR gearbox, but they didn't. Why? They still would have needed to work with BMW on systems integration and the overall effort would have likely been bigger and more expensive. So the BMW parts-bin partnership was the best overall solution. There is too much dependence on BMW in every other part of the car that the transmission bolts to and interfaces with.
Exactly! Same with almost every domestic muscle car and the Tremec T56. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge didn’t build the T56, but they specified their requirements (ratios, bellhousing, tailhousing, shifter location, gearsets, synchro’s, etc…) to Tremec and in return got a vehicle specific version of the T56 for their need. It’s why a Viper’s T56 is no comparison to a Camaro’s T56.Your logic is flawed...if Toyota wants customisation on the 6MT (which they did), they would approach ZF, not BMW. What ZF will do and did, was to try and reuse as many existing components as possible to reduce cost.
Toyota designed the specification required for the manual Supra, not BMW. BMW has no involvement in that at all. So in reasoning and in practice, the 6MT is all Toyota. The fact that some parts number of the Supra 6MT matches some parts number of BMW's 6MT components is irrelevant.
This is coming from an engineer. Whoever comes up with the design and specifications of the unit is the mastermind of that unit. The components of a unit can be shared across platforms. Using your logic, a Porsche GT3 is a parts bin car, any BMW M car is a parts bin car...