Time to end my A91 journey?

[Supra_UK_]

Supra resale is pretty trash now, even salesmen don't know what values will be like in 10 years.
At the end of the day the Supra has a b58 which is in all regular 40i bmw cars, it is good, but it's not special.

The GT4 is a Porsche, it's prestigious, has some of the best engines and gearbox, in the world.

I love the Supra, don't get
me wrong, but if I had the money (I never will) I would get myself an ear-gasmic GTS 4.0 PDK the GT4 will likely retain value but either way most times cars are depreciating assets anyway.

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[Syeeee]

Supra resale is pretty trash now, even salesmen don't know what values will be like in 10 years.
At the end of the day the Supra has a b58 which is in all regular 40i bmw cars, it is good, but it's not special.

The GT4 is a Porsche, it's prestigious, has some of the best engines and gearbox, in the world.

I love the Supra, don't get
me wrong, but if I had the money (I never will) I would get myself an ear-gasmic GTS 4.0 PDK the GT4 will likely retain value but either way most times cars are depreciating assets anyway.

Wouldn't nearly say resale is trash. Atleast not in Canada or even u.s

The gt4 is nice, but for that kind of money.. They're way better options. Not to mention not all that quick either.

 

[tonymimi]

You all must have significantly more money than I do. I don’t recall any discussion around the HUGE difference in price for a car that performs minimally better than the Supra. Don’t get me wrong, money no object I’d choose the P car every time but money is an object and the P cars barely perform better than the Supra and require cheater (Cup 2) tires to do so.
Also, cars are never good investments. Saw an article a while back about the actual annualized returns when considering inflation on a group of cars that have appreciated the most over like the last 20 to 30 years or something like that. Bottom line was even the best ones returned very little and some not at all considering inflation.

GT4 is not just minimally better than the Supra tho.......

I had a 718 GTS 2.5T before, and it is already better than Supra, not a lot but is definitely better:

- 718 has better brake and brake feel
- PDK is quicker and smarter than zf8
- mid-engine steering feel more sharper and response faster. And it also make the rear axle much more stable than Supra, I can simply put down the power anytime I want, but with supra I would need to worry if the rear-end kickout. There is reason why all track focused supercar and Hypercar are mid-engine.
- Interior is the biggest difference, Porsche has way better interior than Supra, and even the steering wheel looks nice and feels way much more better.

And although I personally prefer the look of Supra, but for most of people 718 is better looking car. When I had 718 Boxster GTS, I consistently get compliment from stranger and friend, like literally anyone from 80 year old lady to little kids. And since I got Supra, it only attract favor from kids and some guys.

And dont forget GTS is just a little brother from GT4

To make supra perform better than GT4 you will need put a significant amount of money and time to buy and puts on a lot of mods and then tuned it. And it is still lack of PDK and mid-engine feel. The only reason I end up getting Supra is because of my finance situation

 

[FLtrackdays]

That’s the big argument for me against the GT4 as I definitely want to bring it out on the track but not super often as I’d rather get a cheap beater to track a lot and have not as much risk. People say the GT4 is a blast on backroads but not a practical casual driver due to its lack of isolation, gearing, and overall race car characteristics.

Don’t know if you got your Porsche yet. I got this far in the thread and this post stuck out. That’s where the Supra got me. I’d likely baby the Porsche too much if I tracked it. The Supra fits my bill (price range) for having fun w/out worries of “what if“ on track.

I noticed a couple of hanging bits on her bottom lip a few days back. Got a box cutter out and viola, all better. I just couldn’t see me doing that to my Porsche. If that was my track car. It’s my perfect price point for not feeling like I need to buy track insurance, baby the shit out of her, etc. And she’s been more fun in town than I expected with all the suspension bits on her.

Also the consumables are much cheaper. If tracking is on your mind. Lap time wise, I’ve found myself running similar times with the 2016-2018 variety of Porsches. No right or wrong. Just my rational & why I prefer the Supra over a Porsche.

 

[oreobbq]

P is a beautiful car. Now ask the same question on Rennlist

 

[Syeeee]

GT4 is not just minimally better than the Supra tho.......

I had a 718 GTS 2.5T before, and it is already better than Supra, not a lot but is definitely better:

- 718 has better brake and brake feel
- PDK is quicker and smarter than zf8
- mid-engine steering feel more sharper and response faster. And it also make the rear axle much more stable than Supra, I can simply put down the power anytime I want, but with supra I would need to worry if the rear-end kickout. There is reason why all track focused supercar and Hypercar are mid-engine.
- Interior is the biggest difference, Porsche has way better interior than Supra, and even the steering wheel looks nice and feels way much more better.

And although I personally prefer the look of Supra, but for most of people 718 is better looking car. When I had 718 Boxster GTS, I consistently get compliment from stranger and friend, like literally anyone from 80 year old lady to little kids. And since I got Supra, it only attract favor from kids and some guys.

And dont forget GTS is just a little brother from GT4

To make supra perform better than GT4 you will need put a significant amount of money and time to buy and puts on a lot of mods and then tuned it. And it is still lack of PDK and mid-engine feel. The only reason I end up getting Supra is because of my finance situation

I've driven the gts and this is far from the truth, but differ opinions.

 

[jchadwell]

GT4 is not just minimally better than the Supra tho.......

Let's compare some test results. From Car and Driver September 2020 718 Cayman GT4 versus Corvette comparison.

The $105,000 almost no option GT4 went 12.1 in the quarter and 3.9 to 60, stopped from 70 in 149 feet, and cornered at 1.08 G. This was a manual GT4 and the PDKs will run around 3 or 4 tenths quicker so call it 11.7 or 11.8 with the PDK. I ran an 11.98 in the quarter when my car was stock and the car mags consistently get 12.1 to 12.2 and 3.8 or so to 60 for the Supra automatic. Supra braking is also almost identical. Most tests have been around 150 to 152 feet from 70 with an occasional 149 feet. Cornering is also pretty similar but the Supra is slightly less with most tests in the 1.03G range although there have been a few higher and one at 1.07.

So, yeah, I respectfully disagree. At best the GT4 is only minimally better. And lets not forget, Porsche needs the cheater Cup 2 tires to generate this performance while the Supra runs on 2 model year old PSS tires. Swap tires between the cars and which do you think would perform better? Is a few tenths in the quarter and nearly identical braking and cornering worth a MINIMUM $45,000 more? Does the mid-engine car "feel" $45,000 plus better?

Now let's talk mods. I added a catted DP, JB4, custom Jesse Map 6 tune, Eibach Euro springs, a front Eibach sway bar, and Verus Camber plates. I bought the DP and JB4 used from forum members and got Jesse's tune when it was on sale. I traded NitroYellow my factory DP for the Verus plates and some other dress up bits. I did all of the installation myself. All-in I've spent about $2200 on performance mods. Finally, I also picked up spare factory wheels so I can run 200TW RE-71RS tires for autocross. As Car and Driver said once the difference in tires is like the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. Perfect example, 2023 C&D Lightning Lap, simply swapping regular summer rubber to Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R tires reduced a 2020 Audi RS3s time by 13 seconds. Think about that. 13 freaking seconds from cheater tires!! In the previous three autocross seasons I've spanked all manner of P-cars. Only two have beaten me and only by a few tenths. One was a $150,000 2020 911 4S with the Chrono and sport suspension packages (PSM something or another, can't remember the abbreviation) and Yoko A052 tires. The second was a closer to $200,000 previous edition (2016 I think) GT4 RS, also fully prepped to SCCA class rules and on A052s. Keep in mind, I'm less than $54,000 all-in here.

And finally, for the track day crowd. Our forum members who really track these cars frequently and hard have commented on numerous occasions how much the Supra punches above its weight class and many have posted on track videos that include absolutely hounding various cars that are 2-3 times more expensive (the GT4 Cayman included). Even here, the mods costs are not huge and even seriously upgrading - like full on coil overs, all the SPL suspension bits, usual power mods, better cooling/intake, etc. - doesn't bring the cost anywhere close to the stock P-Cars. And simply adding a higher performance pad and fluid is all that's necessary on the brake side. Perhaps Rocks and Blues, RazorLab, FLTrack Days, and a couple other road course participants that I can't remember can share their observations between these cars on track.

Bottom line, the Supra is an incredible performance buy that right out of the box hangs with MUCH expensive cars. And a few inexpensive modes and better tires are a game changer. In fact, stock to stock, simply running the Cup 2s on the Supra and the PSSs on the GT4 would change everything. Not going to argue the Cayman "feels" better. However, it's not like the Supra drives horribly by any stretch. It feels pretty damn good in its own right and is a more comfortable daily driver than can just happen to outperform cars that cost 2 or more times as much. And I won't even touch the maintenance aspects. I can change my oil for about$60 in parts and 15 minutes of time. Is that possible in a P-Car?

Don't get me wrong. I love the P-Cars and would have one in a heartbeat if I won the powerball. In the real world, though, I just can't see where those cars are $45,000 MINIMUM, better. And it's not even close.

 

[Syeeee]

gg.

 

[dchan8]

GT4 for sure will be worth more in the future. It’s special and limited. Porsche is boutique. They have a different market.
I love the Supra, I’m a JDM fan boy.
but GT4 out of the box is nice without mods. Supra is fun, a bit better in price point and fun to mod. It may or may not be special a decade from now, but in the JDM community, the Supra badge will always be special.
Can’t go wrong with both. It’s preference.

 

[saik]

You all must have significantly more money than I do. I don’t recall any discussion around the HUGE difference in price for a car that performs minimally better than the Supra. Don’t get me wrong, money no object I’d choose the P car every time but money is an object and the P cars barely perform better than the Supra and require cheater (Cup 2) tires to do so.

+1

That's the thing some people seem to be ignoring. Cost is definitely a significant variable in this discussion. The Supra is not a $100K car, but at $50K+ it's definitely performing or can perform rather well against cars much more expensive.

I think the obvious answer, is that if any of us were given a free GT4 or a Supra, 9 out of 10 folks would probably pick the GT4. But because you know, we live in reality, we have to pay. Otherwise we'd all be on the Porsche forums here talking about our GT4s instead of Supras lol

 

[Rocksandblues]

My Supra and I are faster than all but a pro driver in a new GT4.
An equal driver in a GT4rs is probably faster.
Put me in a GT4 and you in my Supra I am faster.
A modded track weapon Supra vs GT4 it will really come down to the driver.
The difference- the GT4 is more special, more refined, more of a precise instrument than the Supra. The gt4s will hold their value more and longer and possible even go up
Friends 2016 GT4 that I thought he paid too much for in 2021 is worth exactly the same today. And it is Porsche perfect, is a delight to shift and listen too. He can pound on it at the track and then take his wife out to the fanciest restaurant that night. My wife won't even sit in my modded Supra.

I am a HUGE fan of the Zupra- but it is not a Porsche.

If I only tracked a couple times a year and the rest was fun weekend, winery, etc car 10 out 10 time i would buy a Porsche.

I almost bought a friends GT3 and one of the reasons I did not is they are so nice- I would not be able to drive them at 10/10 effort- they are just too special. My Supra is awesome but has nicks, and dings, and the front looks sand blasted- and yet i wring every ounce out of her every weekend.


.02

bored at work, otherwise I really don't care what the OP does- lol

 

[BraveDemon]

I've driven the gts and this is far from the truth, but differ opinions.

I'm going to hard agree after having recently driven the 718s bigger brother, the Carrera 4S.

Wife got me seat time in a C4S at the Porsche Experience Center in Torrance a few weeks ago and I had a chance to drive the piss out of it around the PECLA test track. When I walked in, I fully expected to be blown away and thought this was a test drive for my next car.

However the entire time I thought: "huh, I could do this in the Supra…” or the TTRS for the drag strip part - the C4S is stupid fast from a stop and hooks up so well, that I admit fully.

But it was eye opening. As I walked out of the PECLA center to the Supra for the drive home, I told my wife I’d rather keep my Supra over trading it in for a C4S.

 

[ColonelAdama]

I'm going to hard agree after having recently driven the 718s bigger brother, the Carrera 4S.

Wife got me seat time in a C4S at the Porsche Experience Center in Torrance a few weeks ago and I had a chance to drive the piss out of it around the PECLA test track. When I walked in, I fully expected to be blown away and thought this was a test drive for my next car.

However the entire time I thought: "huh, I could do this in the Supra…” or the TTRS for the drag strip part - the C4S is stupid fast from a stop and hooks up so well, that I admit fully.

But it was eye opening. As I walked out of the PECLA center to the Supra for the drive home, I told my wife I’d rather keep my Supra over trading it in for a C4S.

I drove 992 GT3 at PECATL in 2022 and obviously it was on another level from my Supra, but not 5x the price good. Now at 150k? Sure, that's worth it. Just not 250-300...

It certainly felt very precise and put the power down much better. In all honesty though, that car's limits were beyond what I was comfortable with anyway

The engine was definitely the star of the show. Sounds like a liter bike and revs like one too.

I actually left PEC with a greater appreciation for the Supra's capability...

I have also track-driven every new M car on sale at the M-performance center in Spartanburg. The only M car I thought felt as nice as the Supra was the F87 M2 competition. The G8X cars felt heavy and do not have the turn-in rotation that the RWD Supra and M2 have. The S58 was bonkers fast though - like 992 GT3 fast

 

[NCMIKE]

You need to call the Dave Ramsey Show and ask old Dave. Dave's recommendation/reaction would make an interesting You Tube.

 

[Spart]

You would have to drive it - from all my Porsche friends say that the car is really not meant for the street - gears too long and it does not have the power as the Supra can have.

This is one of the things I like about the 6MT Supra coming from a GT350 as it suffers the same problem to a degree. Redline in first gear in the GT350 is 54mph (vs 49mph for the 981 GT4) and 78mph in second (vs 83mph for the GT4.)

Around town, the Supra feels faster and just has torque everywhere.

The GT350 really came to life on a road course though. The tall gearing makes sense when you might need to downshift to first for a hairpin. And with 4th being good for 141MPH (that's both the GT350 and GT4) on many tracks you're only using gears 2-4.

This is not to hate on the GT350 though - I loved owning that car for five years, and if space and money were of no consequence I'd have never gotten rid of it. One of the greatest cars of all time.

If your current car is an AT - do it. No question.

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