Toyota GR Supra Racing Concept Officially Revealed!

Supra Dupra

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Actually, the 2JZ Johann A. Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH story is a myth. folks even contacted them and asked about this to confirm the authenticity and they said they had zero part in the development.

It was all Toyota, which has also been confirmed by members of TRD and Toyotas engineering team from the time. All of which makes sense given Yamaha designed the 1JZ and the 2J is simply a natural progression using many of the same parts.

The trans however was Getrag, and Toyota will likely never use another product from them and vise versa; the two companies ended up clashing hard over warranty issues of the V160 (mostly the fault of Toyota dealers) and things have never been made right.

This was covered in a previous thread on here at some point in the past.
I was curious about this since people still bring this up from time to time so I contacted them. Below is the response I received (I'm redacting names only). I must say that it was extremely generous of them to answer a question out of the blue like this from a random gmail account (they always got back to me within a day of inquiring) - I'm very impressed, to say the least.

Dear [SUPRA DUPRA],

Thank you for your enquiry.

After closer inspection, we are able to tell you that we do not have any data that confirms a corporation between Toyota and Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH. However, we do have some information about Toyota in general as well as their cooperation with the company August Bilstein GmbH & Co. KG , also known as thyssenkrupp Bilstein, during the 90s. This company mostly produced and sold shock absorbers and not engines as your enquiry mentioned.

If you would like to be sent further information on the cooperation between these two companies, please let us know and we will be sure to reply shortly.

If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Thyssen Industrie AG acquired 100 percent of the shares in Johann A. Krause.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Best regards

[HEAD OF CORPORATE ARCHIVES OF THYSSENKRUPP KRAUSE]
I inquired further and they further responded with the below:
Dear [SUPRA DUPRA],

Bilstein has equipped Toyota with shock absorbers. However, we have no further documents on this. In the appendix I send you a brochure by Bilstein from 1991. At that time Bilstein belonged to Hoesch, which merged with Krupp in 1992 (since 1999 ThyssenKrupp).

Much success with the further research!

Best regards

[HEAD OF CORPORATE ARCHIVES OF THYSSENKRUPP KRAUSE]
In short, it looks they (or, to be precise, a company that was ultimately merged with/into them) previously produced shock absorbers for the Supra (MKIII), but was not involved in the 2JZ whatsoever.
 

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A70TTR

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Awesome! it's great that you not only reached out, but also posted their reply, as folks LOVE to argue about this and say the 2JZ is a German design lol. Now, hopefully some folks can reference your post and use it for a response.
 

Supra Dupra

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Awesome! it's great that you not only reached out, but also posted their reply, as folks LOVE to argue about this and say the 2JZ is a German design lol. Now, hopefully some folks can reference your post and use it for a response.
Yeah, that's my hope too - hopefully the above finally puts this myth to rest.

:thumbsup:
 

Z8AKU

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Actually, the 2JZ Johann A. Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH story is a myth. folks even contacted them and asked about this to confirm the authenticity and they said they had zero part in the development.

It was all Toyota, which has also been confirmed by members of TRD and Toyotas engineering team from the time. All of which makes sense given Yamaha designed the 1JZ and the 2J is simply a natural progression using many of the same parts.

The trans however was Getrag, and Toyota will likely never use another product from them and vise versa; the two companies ended up clashing hard over warranty issues of the V160 (mostly the fault of Toyota dealers) and things have never been made right.

This was covered in a previous thread on here at some point in the past.
Your claims and/or assertions here about someone or multiple people contacting Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH to question their relationship with Toyota in regards to the development and engineering phases of the 2ZJ-GTE motor are absolutely preposterous. You spread carless assertions without any evidence to support your claims.

The first post I could find online of anyone stating or challenging that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH wasn't involved in the 2JZ-GTE development is dated from 2011 on the Supra Forums here:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/help-with-2jz-history-origin.641663/

Yet, here we have a link dated from June 6, 2007 stating the following;

"The 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH to refine and make suitable for use in the Japanese Grand Touring Car Championship "JGTC" which required the motor to be homologated in a production car. The Engine was to power the fourth generation of the Supra sports car. It was based on the 2JZ-GE, but differed in its use of sequential twin turbochargers and the use of an intercooler."
http://mypowerofengine.blogspot.com/2007/06/toyota-jz-engine.html

And again here on October, 22, 2010
http://kp-gasket.blogspot.com/2010/10/toyota-2jz-gte-engine.html

Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH was acquired through an acquisition deal in 2006 and was moved under the umbrella of ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd. as a result (public information and documented under SEC). Therefore how could anyone as you have asserted here have contacted Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH directly in 2011 if the firm had been acquired and under ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd for 5 years prior? This debunks your claim in one swift blow alone with merit I might add.

http://www.krause.co.uk

More importantly how does anyone from the public simply make a call in to a major engineering firm they have no affiliation to and obtain sensitive information about their multi-billion dollar clients without the company breaking any NDA or NCC agreements that are almost always in place during development and engineering between two companies? Hint... they don't!

Let's assume someone did happen to call or email ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd back in 2011 asking if they were involved in the development or engineering of the 2JZ-GTE they most likely would have stated no if they did allegedly offer this information to begin with. As the company ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd and Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH were two separate companies prior to 2006. So technically, ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd didn't have any account with Toyota regarding the 2JZ-GTE development however, this doesn't discredit or disprove that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH did.

There is more supporting evidence that would lead anyone with common sense that Toyota did in fact source out their 2JZ-GTE block for development and engineering to Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH then there is to debunk it. It's a known fact that Toyota has sourced some of their motors and has indeed utilized outside engineering firms for co-development on many of their platforms from other companies over the course of 55 years now.

The burden of proof lies on you I'm afraid. Where are these alleged phone call recordings, emails or letters from Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH stating they denied working with Toyota on the 2JZ-GTE?

Balls in your court. Good luck! ;)
 
 




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