Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT

[C-Pike]

That thing is hideous. More like a GR Tercel or GR Echo.

Yup but I doubt the body work is a preview of any production car. They're most likely testing a new powertrain for who knows what.

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[Bryster]

I'm really curious about the name Celica Sport, that means there could be a Celica Targa or a Celica Hatch

 

[GRMan]

I actually wasn't making an argument for them in my post. I had *some* positive things to say about my experience with my 5th gen model 25 years ago... but with enough caveats to feel they still missed the mark even back then despite it being a generally very good driver oriented coupe.

...But even in its day not when compared to its competitor Nissan Silvia S14 K's and S15 Spec-R (both the turbo version). Which of course were not available from the factory in the U.S. back then. And today I feel the BRZ & GR86 solve pretty much every issue I had with the Prelude back in the day.

When comparing the new Prelude to the previous 5th generation (manual)... the old one is still the more compelling car IMO. And when comparing the new Prelude to its current day competition... namely the BRZ/GR86... I feel the Subaru/Toyota model wins no contest.

If they had given it more horsepower, a manual option and perhaps the CTR's engine and LSD it might be a different story.

A super high revving NA engine is getting harder and harder to achieve these days and pass modern emissions regulations globally. At least inexpensively. Honda isn't the only automaker facing this challenge. I don't fault them for using turbos these days.

And I don't fault them for pursuing the fun-to-drive gas-electric hybrid market either. The problem is that they cannot achieve this by merely repackaging an existing non-high-performance hybrid drivetrain and expect it to deliver on this. Especially if the previous now classic model is widely noted to be... well... far more fun to drive even despite its own well known limitations.

They make a good CTR yes. And I wish they would do another "S" RWD model. Or a two door Integra (since that's the one everyone actually cares about). Or a new Legend sedan and coupe. Or a successor to the Beat and S660 Kei roadsters. Or... or... maybe a Civic Si / Type R manual that isn't the size of a 2000's Accord and also which is a two door hatchback. Or maybe a new Fit (which was great as a 5-door hatchback) but this time with an "Si" manual LSD trim with more than 117-130hp.

The problem is, as you said, that they've become mostly out of touch with what makes their cars fun and a joy to drive. Even if they have to take somewhat different technological approaches now they could still put in the effort to make actually fun and cool vehicles again (current CTR excepted)... if they wanted to.

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[GRMan]

I had a lot of fun in both a DC2 Type R, Jap SW20 245hp MR2 Turbo (1.1 bar apexi avc-r) and the ITR has so much rev range and so much feedback but the MR2 was like a rocket once the boost was turned up. The thurst from the 3SGTE on CT-20 turbo was ferocious even by today’s standard.

The ITR experience can never be reproduced again in today’s Honda but I really believe the MR2 experience can be if GR is committed to it. The GR Yaris Gen 2 is such an amazing pocket rocket, it already shows whst they can do with their sports car.

 

[KahnBB6]

Yup but I doubt the body work is a preview of any production car. They're most likely testing a new powertrain for who knows what.

They're definitely testing a new powertrain or a revision of one. Either a revised G16E since the rally category may have a limit of 1.6L or they are testing the 2.0L G20E. With some evolution of the GR-Four AWD system. My bet is on the G20E since that is what the production Celica and MR2 will be using.

The only other rally car that they are working on is the new 5-door Yaris which will have a GR variant but in FWD with a detuned 1.3L I-3 to compete in the Rally4 category (which is FWD only) and this is definitely not that.

The bodywork *styling cues* probably are hints of what a production model may eventually look like... but not the dimensions and proportions themselves. Given the wheelbase this is probably an existing GR Yaris racing space frame that is modified.

Think of anime/manga "chibi" scrunched style drawings of a popular enthusiast model vs a picture of the real car. Only Toyota did this in real life because the rules allowed them to as long as the bodywork vaguely resembles an *intended* production model even if the actual production model would never have the same dimensions.

This is essentially a scrunched vague version of what they want their Celica to be-- which uses some existing hardware as fast as possible so that they can do R&D, testing and racing with the prototype and/or revised drivetrain before a production Celica chassis has been finished. The front and rear styling and change to a coupe shape is a goofy looking approximation of the future car which satisfies the category rules.

It will not be such a goofy looking thing when the production car debuts.

Example:

 

[Bryster]

Uhhhhh

 

[PerformanceSound]

Interesting that part of their reasoning is that the G16E 1.6L I-3 presents a challenge with meeting emissions. Maybe that is because it runs very high boost and thus very high cylinder pressures?

I thought the original reason for the G16E was to do more with three cylinders *because* of global emissions concerns that hit larger engines harder.

Regardless the G20E I-4 turbo is going to be a great engine.

It was always about weight, not displacement. However, now with regulations shifting in car makers favor, we should be seeing some interesting things happening.

....also, this almost confirms there would be no I4 in the next gen Supra.

 

[KahnBB6]

Uhhhhh

Yep. It's been expected that Toyota would make the next GR86 a mild hybrid. That's been their internal mandate for *newly designed* models from 2026+ (meaning the current non-hybrid GR86 gets a pass as long as it is still for sale).

As an owner of the current model, which I really love as a daily, I am interested primarily because it will likely use the G20E as a basis regardless of whether it gets a turbo or is naturally aspirated. However they tune it they are not going to pull a Honda 6th gen Prelude with this car.

What's really interesting is whether or not Toyota is going ahead with the plan to share a heavily reworked (and stretched) Mazda Miata platform in coupe 2+2 form... or if they are (surprisingly) spending a lot of money to VERY heavily rework the current Subaru based chassis to make it compatible with their longitudinal inline-four.

I would imagine Toyota will continue to carry over and further revise the Aisin AZ6/TL-70 6-speed manual transmission and their 6-speed automatic (which originally came from the Lexus IS parts bin) and also carry over the rear differential (which itself dates all the way back to the 1986 Supra) and Torsen T2 LSD.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Honda hasn't cared enough about enthusiasts to make a proper sports car since the S2000. They are completely disconnected from what enthusiasts actually want and have been for close to 2 decades now. I'm not worried about Toyota's approach to any of their future cars in comparison.

Seriously, one of my biggest gripe with Honda is with the NC1. It had none of the charm of the NA1. Big, ugly, and overpriced; no wonder it was a massive sales flop.

 

[Bryster]

Seriously, one of my biggest gripe with Honda is with the NC1. It had none of the charm of the NA1. Big, ugly, and overpriced; no wonder it was a massive sales flop.

the GT3 looks nice, though

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