Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT

[C-Pike]

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[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

it's already been confirmed that this is just a shell fitted to a class-specific tube frame. We have no way of knowing if the size or proportions are similar to the intended production vehicle, or if it's just "reminiscent".

This!!! It's funny to see everyone getting all worked up over nothing lol.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-celica-sport-get-hybrid-20-litre-turbo-and-4wd

Toyota Celica Sport to get hybrid 2.0-litre turbo and 4WD

Toyota GR marketing boss tells Autocar a bigger four-pot is being considered due to emissions

Toyota is considering a 2.0-litre hybrid powertrain for its highly anticipated new Celica, which Autocar has been told could be named the Celica Sport.

The Japanese marque officially confirmed the Celica's return at the 2024 Rally Japan, when then-vice-president Yuki Nakajima told spectators “We’re making the Celica!”.

Speculation mounted again earlier this month when what appeared to be the new sports coupé was spotted being shaken down in Portugal ahead of the 2027 World Rally Championship.

Now Autocar has been told the car is being referred to as the Celica Sport, while a Toyota spokesperson confirmed that it will have four-wheel drive.

Revealing to Autocar details about the car’s potential powertrain, Gazoo Racing marketing manager Mikio Hayashi said: “The displacement size of 1.6 litres [used in the GR Yaris], for example, cannot meet emission regulations. So we have to consider the possibility of a 2.0-litre.

"We are thinking about various sizes, but we are not at a stage where we can tell you exactly what size it is. Nothing has been decided yet about whether it will be a standard hybrid or plug-in hybrid.”

Pressed on a timeframe for the new 2.0-litre engine, Hayashi remained coy. “We are continuing to develop that. We have high expectations," he said. "We cannot point to a timeline but can say we are making steady progress.”

Autocar reported last year that Toyota was priming a new hybrid powertrain for its GR models in an effort to give its sporting sub-brand a new lease of life in an era of strict emissions regulations.

This system will be based around a new turbocharged four-cylinder petrol engine, which for the next generation of its sports cars will likely have a 2.0-litre capacity.

This features a shorter piston stroke than Toyota’s current engines, making it smaller and lighter. This is important, because a hybrid element can be fitted with minimal weight penalty compared with existing GR cars.

German publication Auto Motor und Sport has also reported that the engine could produce 600bhp or more when fitted with a suitably large turbocharger.

As well as the Celica, the new engine could eventually find its way into the GR Yaris, European sales of which have been restricted by increasingly stringent emissions legislation.

 

[Zboy]

Hopefully it won't be lame like the new Prelude.

 

[jmikes]

Hopefully it won't be lame like the new Prelude.

Honda hasn't cared enough about enthusiasts to make a proper sports car since the S2000. They are completely disconnected from what enthusiasts actually want and have been for close to 2 decades now. I'm not worried about Toyota's approach to any of their future cars in comparison.

 

[Ron L]

Honda hasn't cared enough about enthusiasts to make a proper sports car since the S2000. They are completely disconnected from what enthusiasts actually want and have been for close to 2 decades now. I'm not worried about Toyota's approach to any of their future cars in comparison.

I agree. Honda thinks being in F1 and Indycar is good for them. But they really don't have a very good line up of cars for a racing/driving enthusiast to buy!

 

[GRMan]

Honda is a joke these days. Releasing a new Prelude that has similar horsepower as the one (2.2 vtec) that was released 30 years ago.

Their mindset on sports car are really 30 years behind

 

[KahnBB6]

Honda is a joke these days. Releasing a new Prelude that has similar horsepower as the one (2.2 vtec) that was released 30 years ago.

Their mindset on sports car are really 30 years behind

Seconding this. I owned a previous gen (5th) Prelude Type SH just near the end of their production. Overall a very good car. A practical everyday driver's car. It wasn't fast but it was reasonably quick enough, the 2.2L dual stage VTEC engine was a lot of fun and the manual transmission was pretty good. But it was very limited as a FWD with an engine that was very expensive to add boost to reliably if you wanted that. And the brakes were not the best-- 1st gen NSX front calipers were the fix if you wanted to shell out for that.

But I did always feel it needed about 250hp instead of its factory 200hp and about 180-200lb-ft of torque instead of its factory 156ft-lbs. Still though... a good and genuinely fun engine for its day when paired with a manual transmission.

And there needed to be a non-sunroof option (for U.S. buyers).

...

Fast forward to now and Honda only corrected two of the previous gripes: it comes without a sunroof and it got very good front Brembo brakes from the Type R.

But a chassis that is significantly heavier than the 5th gen's 3,050lbs paired with an engine that only makes the same 200hp rating from 25 years ago? Not even the JDM Type S Prelude's 217hp...? And no manual option? And no active torque vectoring front diff or even the mechanical LSD from the Civic Type R...? And a 0-60 that is a full second SLOWER than the Prelude I owned years ago...?

Nope. And certainly not for $40k+ USD.

Good looking car though and great front suspension. I cannot complain about the good fuel economy but it comes at the expense of everything that would make the Prelude fun to drive. I'll even go as far as to say that Honda COULD have made a far more fun to drive hybrid if they really wanted to put in the effort.

That extra effort is what the Honda of the 1990's used to be famous for. Technological challenges may be much more difficult to overcome today but they're a major automaker with the resources to do far more than carry over a marginally tweaked Civic Hybrid drivetrain.

 

[KahnBB6]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-celica-sport-get-hybrid-20-litre-turbo-and-4wd

Toyota Celica Sport to get hybrid 2.0-litre turbo and 4WD

Toyota GR marketing boss tells Autocar a bigger four-pot is being considered due to emissions

Toyota is considering a 2.0-litre hybrid powertrain for its highly anticipated new Celica, which Autocar has been told could be named the Celica Sport.

The Japanese marque officially confirmed the Celica's return at the 2024 Rally Japan, when then-vice-president Yuki Nakajima told spectators “We’re making the Celica!”.

Speculation mounted again earlier this month when what appeared to be the new sports coupé was spotted being shaken down in Portugal ahead of the 2027 World Rally Championship.

Now Autocar has been told the car is being referred to as the Celica Sport, while a Toyota spokesperson confirmed that it will have four-wheel drive.

Revealing to Autocar details about the car’s potential powertrain, Gazoo Racing marketing manager Mikio Hayashi said: “The displacement size of 1.6 litres [used in the GR Yaris], for example, cannot meet emission regulations. So we have to consider the possibility of a 2.0-litre.

"We are thinking about various sizes, but we are not at a stage where we can tell you exactly what size it is. Nothing has been decided yet about whether it will be a standard hybrid or plug-in hybrid.”

Pressed on a timeframe for the new 2.0-litre engine, Hayashi remained coy. “We are continuing to develop that. We have high expectations," he said. "We cannot point to a timeline but can say we are making steady progress.”

Autocar reported last year that Toyota was priming a new hybrid powertrain for its GR models in an effort to give its sporting sub-brand a new lease of life in an era of strict emissions regulations.

This system will be based around a new turbocharged four-cylinder petrol engine, which for the next generation of its sports cars will likely have a 2.0-litre capacity.

This features a shorter piston stroke than Toyota’s current engines, making it smaller and lighter. This is important, because a hybrid element can be fitted with minimal weight penalty compared with existing GR cars.

German publication Auto Motor und Sport has also reported that the engine could produce 600bhp or more when fitted with a suitably large turbocharger.

As well as the Celica, the new engine could eventually find its way into the GR Yaris, European sales of which have been restricted by increasingly stringent emissions legislation.

Interesting that part of their reasoning is that the G16E 1.6L I-3 presents a challenge with meeting emissions. Maybe that is because it runs very high boost and thus very high cylinder pressures?

I thought the original reason for the G16E was to do more with three cylinders *because* of global emissions concerns that hit larger engines harder.

Regardless the G20E I-4 turbo is going to be a great engine.

 

[BMWAF]

Honda is a joke these days. Releasing a new Prelude that has similar horsepower as the one (2.2 vtec) that was released 30 years ago.

Their mindset on sports car are really 30 years behind

Honda has always been like this though. Every single Type R I can think of has always been at the slow end of the competition in its own time. Honda fanboys rarely accept it - Especially the FL5 folk - but Honda has always played the better driving experience card which in fairness does go some way to negate the lack of hp/performance compared to it's competition.

 

[GRMan]

Honda has always been like this though. Every single Type R I can think of has always been at the slow end of the competition in its own time. Honda fanboys rarely accept it - Especially the FL5 folk - but Honda has always played the better driving experience card which in fairness does go some way to negate the lack of hp/performance compared to it's competition.

The context of my gripe was the Prelude has similar horsepower than it’s predecessor thst was released 30 years ago and it is still slower because of the extra weight. I am comparing it to a sports car of an older model by the same manufacturer. Its not being compared to anything else yet.

However, once we start comparing other sports/performance car in the market, the value of money for its performance gets even worse.

Your argument for them actually shows that Honda is still stuck in the mindset from 30 years ago. The performance market is very different now. Back then, it was all about motorsports feel for Honda with their highly strung high rev NA engine, married to a lightweightp chassis. This engineering formula allows them to say, hey I have less horsepower but the car provides the driver with a more focused motorsports style driving experience. These days, no way. The new Prelude doesn’t even have a high reving, high compression NA engine and the power to weigh ratio is very poor for its class, for the money that they are asking for. Overall, the main objective of this car is not on its performance or motorsports driving experience (as there are none, really) but on how Honda sees what a Honda sporty car can be. Since the demise of the S2000 snd excluding the CTR, they are not a good understander of what people actually wants from a Honda sports car.

 

[gymratter]

 

[KahnBB6]

The context of my gripe was the Prelude has similar horsepower than it’s predecessor thst was released 30 years ago and it is still slower because of the extra weight. I am comparing it to a sports car of an older model by the same manufacturer. Its not being compared to anything else yet.

However, once we start comparing other sports/performance car in the market, the value of money for its performance gets even worse.

Your argument for them actually shows that Honda is still stuck in the mindset from 30 years ago. The performance market is very different now. Back then, it was all about motorsports feel for Honda with their highly strung high rev NA engine, married to a lightweightp chassis. This engineering formula allows them to say, hey I have less horsepower but the car provides the driver with a more focused motorsports style driving experience. These days, no way. The new Prelude doesn’t even have a high reving, high compression NA engine and the power to weigh ratio is very poor for its class, for the money that they are asking for. Overall, the main objective of this car is not on its performance or motorsports driving experience (as there are none, really) but on how Honda sees what a Honda sporty car can be. Since the demise of the S2000 snd excluding the CTR, they are not a good understander of what people actually wants from a Honda sports car.

I actually wasn't making an argument for them in my post. I had *some* positive things to say about my experience with my 5th gen model 25 years ago... but with enough caveats to feel they still missed the mark even back then despite it being a generally very good driver oriented coupe.

...But even in its day not when compared to its competitor Nissan Silvia S14 K's and S15 Spec-R (both the turbo version). Which of course were not available from the factory in the U.S. back then. And today I feel the BRZ & GR86 solve pretty much every issue I had with the Prelude back in the day.

When comparing the new Prelude to the previous 5th generation (manual)... the old one is still the more compelling car IMO. And when comparing the new Prelude to its current day competition... namely the BRZ/GR86... I feel the Subaru/Toyota model wins no contest.

If they had given it more horsepower, a manual option and perhaps the CTR's engine and LSD it might be a different story.

A super high revving NA engine is getting harder and harder to achieve these days and pass modern emissions regulations globally. At least inexpensively. Honda isn't the only automaker facing this challenge. I don't fault them for using turbos these days.

And I don't fault them for pursuing the fun-to-drive gas-electric hybrid market either. The problem is that they cannot achieve this by merely repackaging an existing non-high-performance hybrid drivetrain and expect it to deliver on this. Especially if the previous now classic model is widely noted to be... well... far more fun to drive even despite its own well known limitations.

They make a good CTR yes. And I wish they would do another "S" RWD model. Or a two door Integra (since that's the one everyone actually cares about). Or a new Legend sedan and coupe. Or a successor to the Beat and S660 Kei roadsters. Or... or... maybe a Civic Si / Type R manual that isn't the size of a 2000's Accord and also which is a two door hatchback. Or maybe a new Fit (which was great as a 5-door hatchback) but this time with an "Si" manual LSD trim with more than 117-130hp.

The problem is, as you said, that they've become mostly out of touch with what makes their cars fun and a joy to drive. Even if they have to take somewhat different technological approaches now they could still put in the effort to make actually fun and cool vehicles again (current CTR excepted)... if they wanted to.

 

[KahnBB6]

The rally car test mule on the space frame chassis looks like it is hinting at overall styling that the new Celica may get... but which will probably not be so scrunched and short by the time a production model is arrived at.

I'm thinking longer wheelbase, slightly longer hood and trunk and a slightly more stretched out upper canopy.

As pictured I think this will be far too short of a wheelbase with much too tall of a roofline for the production car. But the overall vehicle styling would look great if adapted for a longer wheelbase.

 

[splv]

That thing is hideous. More like a GR Tercel or GR Echo.

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