Updated oil pump?

[kern417]

Ok, let’s be real. Toyota has sold roughly 15,000 2019 to 2021 Supras. We’ve had “several” issues reported on the forums and Faye has found maybe a couple dozen show up in Toyota’s warranty records system or whatever the name was. Do the math. More than 99% haven’t failed yet.
If they start failing in big numbers and we get an extended warranty notice sometime in the future then I’ll pay attention. Until then I WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT “proactively” spend thousands to replace a part that has a less than 1% failure rate. If you want to, knock yourself out.

that's because, like usual, everyone is making excuses. just like how the engine in your car is in millions of soccer mom SUVs, but burning some oil is "normal for a sports car."

most people don't even check their oil level between oil changes to begin with. it's a well documented issue, but you still see forum posts asking what's wrong when they randomly try and it fails at 18%.

it is just weird to me to see a design flaw that the OEM corrected, but you choose to ignore it because it hasn't blown up in your face yet. but people will change their oil every 2000 miles "just in case." you got it man.

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[kern417]

when i worked at an OEM, if we had more than 3 warranty claims for an issue in 3 months, it was an immediate escalation. let's just be grateful the engineers don't wait for a recall to react.

 

[jchadwell]

that's because, like usual, everyone is making excuses. just like how the engine in your car is in millions of soccer mom SUVs, but burning some oil is "normal for a sports car."

most people don't even check their oil level between oil changes to begin with. it's a well documented issue, but you still see forum posts asking what's wrong when they randomly try and it fails at 18%.

it is just weird to me to see a design flaw that the OEM corrected, but you choose to ignore it because it hasn't blown up in your face yet. but people will change their oil every 2000 miles "just in case." you got it man.

Pointing out that this engine is in millions of vehicles just further makes my point. Apparently math can be difficult. Once again, if you want to spend thousands replacing a part that is highly unlikely to fail then knock yourself out. ?

 

[kern417]

Pointing out that this engine is in millions of vehicles just further makes my point. Apparently math can be difficult. Once again, if you want to spend thousands replacing a part that is highly unlikely to fail then knock yourself out. ?

Math is only difficult when you ignore what the industry uses to demonstrate actual statistical significance. Look up 6 sigma. That is target quality for a reliable design and manufacturing system. Less than 4 failures per million. And it's actual what was used to develop the Toyota Production System.

So Again, just be thankful that OEMs don't actually wait for failure rates to get catastrophic to address it. If Toyota told you there's a 1% chance of your car catching on fire for no reason, and you would take that chance, then by all means go for it.

 

[jchadwell]

Math is only difficult when you ignore what the industry uses to demonstrate actual statistical significance. Look up 6 sigma. That is target quality for a reliable design and manufacturing system. Less than 4 failures per million. And it's actual what was used to develop the Toyota Production System.

So Again, just be thankful that OEMs don't actually wait for failure rates to get catastrophic to address it. If Toyota told you there's a 1% chance of your car catching on fire for no reason, and you would take that chance, then by all means go for it.

You honestly believe any car manufacturer is going to do something about a 5 per million failure rate? I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn for sale. Interested?

 

[razorlab]

Let’s discuss something we all can agree on… what oil do you use?

 

[climhazzard]

You honestly believe any car manufacturer is going to do something about a 5 per million failure rate? I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn for sale. Interested?

I’m confused why you’re being so rude and condescending to people who are trying to help the broader community. This is a much larger issue than the Supra (which is, relatively speaking, a trivial production volume compared to other B58TU vehicles). I also own a G20 and there are reports all over the forums/FB groups. These sources tend to amplify complaints, however as @kern417 outlined in some ways this is likely to be understated because most owners are unlikely to regularly check their oil level. Based on what we know thus far this is the primary indicator of a failure.

Personally, I’m not going to proactively replace my pump in the Supra because I have exceedingly low mileage (<5k on a 2021). I also would love to see data that shows the relationship, if any, between climate and DME software version. Lastly, it’s possible BMW will at some point issue a recall or extend the pump’s warranty.

All that said, I completely understand why others may want to proactively replace their oil pump. I am grateful to @Faye and @kern417 for their efforts to find out as much as possible (and of course in Faye’s case, for the awesome DIY that I suspect will be relied upon heavily as the issue continues to grow).

 

[J29DB03]

Let’s discuss something we all can agree on… what oil do you use?

Better yet, could the type of oil you use have something to do with it???

 

[razorlab]

Better yet, could the type of oil you use have something to do with it???

 

[Mothman]

Watched this a few days ago

Im actually subbed to you and watched this the other day. Actually doesnt look like a bad job at all. I have a 2020 and it does fail at 18% but after i let it chill for like 30min and run the test again it always completes . So idk what to think. I may change it out if im bored enough.

I do have a quick favor tho. Could you list all the 1 time use stuff with part #s so in the future ill know what to order?

Not sure if it is the video but I went ahead and made a list since I plan to attack this myself in the fall when it cools off. I went through parts diagrams on this. If you remove any suspension bolts they are 1x use too. I am planning on dropping the subframe and leaving the suspension in the car as much as possible. This is probably more work and time but I plan on tackling this in my garage on quick jacks and I want to limit the amount of weight on the subframe.

 

[rottmore]

Hmmm, Interesting. I thought six sigma was just a "sub section" of the Toyota production system.

 

[Danimal]

I’m a 20 year automotive powertrain engineer who has led field failure and reliability programs for some super high volume engines that many of you have definitely owned. And I ain't touching the argument in this thread with a 10 foot pole ?

 

[kern417]

I’m a 20 year automotive powertrain engineer who has led field failure and reliability programs for some super high volume engines that many of you have definitely owned. And I ain't touching the argument in this thread with a 10 foot pole ?

you've got double my time in which means you likely have half as much hair. godspeed.

 

[kern417]

You honestly believe any car manufacturer is going to do something about a 5 per million failure rate? I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn for sale. Interested?

Like i said, i worked in OEM manufacturing. Some of us aren't just guessing here. We have hands on experience.

You can't believe that the industry targets such lofty quality metrics.

Meanwhile, my engineers can't believe we hit our process capability requirements and we still get warranty claims.

But we're getting in the weeds now. I'll bow out

 

[rottmore]

I’m a 20 year automotive powertrain engineer who has led field failure and reliability programs for some super high volume engines that many of you have definitely owned. And I ain't touching the argument in this thread with a 10 foot pole ?

Yea ok, Dr. Edward Deming

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