Featured Video: 2020 Supra B58 Engine Teardown via Papadakis Racing

Discussion in 'B58 6-Cyl Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Bolt-Ons' started by Supra93, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

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    The usual "big words" from "big bird." Man up and say something productive, if not...keep quite.
     
  2. Vaevictum

    Vaevictum Well-Known Member

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  3. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

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    It has begun....haha.
     
  4. AHP

    AHP Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so you've skipped over a few steps in your online playbook and straight to the wacky personal attacks. A clear sign that you have nothing tangible to add on the matter, and now you're prepared to drag this thread into the depths with your BS until it gets moderated. You do recognize this is the same unhinged and unproductive behavior that got you perma-banned from SF (hence your reemergence over here)...?


    Your MO is boring and predictable and you're clearly still not capable of having a reasonable discussion. So to play it back --- you reasserted a claim, I asked that you defend said claim, you immediately resort to BS and personal attacks instead engaging in a discussion. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Everything is cool as long as people either ignore or perhaps agree with you, but the moment you are challenged you initiate self destruct mode.


    Anyhey, moving on...


    So the B85 block is not sleeved, rather it utilizes a 0.3mm coating on the cylinders walls. As such, over-boring (i.e., to clean up cylinder walls) is not an option and it doesn't appear sleeving is either..? If this is the case then that gives some insight as to the lack of presence in the aftermarket/racing communities.
     
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  5. Matador

    Matador Well-Known Member

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    Jesus, here we go again.

    Anyway.....

    So very many blocks utilize this technology today. Toyota have employed something similar in most of their engines since the debut of the 2ZZ in 1999. Of course it can be sleeved.
     
  6. AHP

    AHP Well-Known Member

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    Who has sleeved a B58?
     
  7. Matador

    Matador Well-Known Member

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    No one as far as I know, but that's not the point I'm making. Conversely, has anyone needed to?
     
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  8. Supra Dupra

    Supra Dupra Well-Known Member

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  9. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

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    Don’t waste your time bud, trust me when I say arguing with him will only lead to a downward spiraling thread. I like where this thread was going before, let’s just get back on track.
     
  10. A70TTR

    A70TTR Well-Known Member

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    They sleeve VR38s and its the same tech
     
  11. AHP

    AHP Well-Known Member

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    Ah, right.. I had forgotten you couldn't bore/hone those blocks either. I get why OEMs are doing it, but it sucks as an end user that your only options are replace the block or sleeve it, if you have a minor mishap. Once it's sleeved then problem solved but comes with its own set of potential issues, and overkill for most anyway.


    Does the B58 have multiple piston specs to accommodate varying bore dimensions -- what Nissan referred to as "grades"? They have three different piston options in .001 increments, IIRC.
     
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  12. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes1:
     
  13. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but it doesn't really matter. Toyota does that with all their engines too incl the 2j. The tech installs the piston that fits the hole best. But what we care about here is over bore pistons, which Toyota used to generally releases about 3 ranges of in .5mm increments. However I doubt BMW even has a plan for handling bores that wear out. Manufacturers sadly have been moving away from engine rebuilds for sometime. New cars have gotten reliable enough now that most engines can do 200k plus miles without rebuilds and cars have become more disposable in recent decades. Rebuild shops don't get a lot of business from stuff made in the last 20 years. But the performance aftermarket will step in I'm sure and offer sleeves and custom pistons are never a problem if one is ok spending 700us and up for a set of 6. But yeah, would be nice if one didn't have to sleeve the damn thing to replace a piston, it's going to be an expensive motor to bulk up the bottom end or repair a tuning mishap. Even a hone job will likely take most of that .3mm coating off.
     
  14. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    I watched the tear down vid.

    Overall it's an interesting motor with some cool tech and it seems to have a lot of strength in the right places. However I am skeptical it will match the 2jz for outright bottom end strength. Even if Toyota had them beef it up, they still wouldn't design the thing to take 1000rwhp or torque intentionally. Toyota certainly didn't with the 2jz, as has come up here, that was more of a happy accident at the time from them playing it safe and the state of engine tech at the time. That beefy aluminum cradle is there to try and compensate for the fact that it's an aluminum block. And theres a lot more to bottom end strength then block design. It remains to be seen what the pistons, rods and head gasket can take, if one is to judge this motor solely as a worthy 2jz replacement based on how much power it can take internally stock of course.

    Overall the tech is cool and it appears more then strong enough for what people are going to be doing with it for the next 10 years. But BMW usually gets that stuff right, it's the finer details they gloss over that leads to their stuff not being reliable over the long haul. Just look at the shear amount of plastic on this motor. 10 years under a non ventilated hood with a hot ass turbo making heat is not exactly a great way to make plastic components last. I suspect these engines will be reasonably reliable for about 10 years/150k miles or so, then start to get really expensive really fast, as is the norm with most new stuff now.
     
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  15. kona61

    kona61 Well-Known Member

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    The thing to note is nobody knows the long-term wear characteristics of the plasma bore. If they are as a strong and wear-resistant as OEM's make them out to be, they will likely last longer than most, if not all, high-mileage supras.
     

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