Featured Video: 2020 Supra B58 Engine Teardown via Papadakis Racing

Discussion in 'B58 6-Cyl Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Bolt-Ons' started by Supra93, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Artmo

    Artmo New Member

    First Name:
    Andrew
    Car(s):
    WRX & MKIII Supra
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Location:
    Oregon
    Posts:
    3
    Liked:
    13
    Question to any current owners, are you able to reach that oil filter from above? or do you go from below? I am quite curious how it is done being in the position that it is in, with the intake manifold/water heat exchange being above it.
     
  2. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    Subaru STI
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Location:
    Chicago, IL.
    Posts:
    1,189
    Liked:
    2,135
    Garage Profiles:
    2
    The one thing that bothers me about the B58, is the rear timing chain placement. I get why (no need for replacement, less frequent access, etc...)....but things like; cam upgrades, possible cam gear upgrades, etc... will be a real pain in the ass.

    Also, not sure if this was already posted (sorry for the double post, I was just too lazy to search) but just a down-pipe and tune resulted in an 11 sec MKV Supra. Love or hate it, that is a proper RESULT!!!

     
  3. KahnBB6

    KahnBB6 Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    '93 Lexus SC300 5-speed 2JZGTE R154 LSD
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Location:
    Florida
    Posts:
    219
    Liked:
    432
    Interested to see how Papidakis Racing builds one of these up!

    I’ve built just one 2JZ-GTE engine myself and even then the cylinder head and core bottom end assembly/balancing were contracted out to professional shops. However aside from those two things going through every other aspect of the assembly was an invaluable learning experience.

    In particular with this B58 both the oil cooler system and windage tray design both impress me a lot.

    I am no professional but based on familiarity with the 2JZ-GTE’s external oil cooler design I can see how that single block of aluminum vastly reduces complexity and would improve reliability while achieving the same result.

    The rods were not focused on so much in this video but those can easily be upgraded.

    The intake manifold/water-to-air heat exchanger we all knew about already but I do wonder if welded aluminum aftermarket manifolds and front mount intercoolers will soon be common with these B58’s.

    ^^ It’s interesting... usually the MKIV TT’s 2JZ side mount intercooler is considered CFM limited and therefore less than ideal above 450-500whp or so. I retained that system (with a new core) in my car due to its overall efficiency at lower power levels.

    The same probably is the case with the integrated manifold heat exchanger on the B58... but at what point does that plastic intake and exchanger become an efficiency bottleneck to making big power?

    Further, I wonder if the plastic cylinder head cover would ever be an issue at very high power levels. Also I wonder if its complexity could ever be duplicated in custom aluminum welding. Probably an aftermarket aluminum casting or automated CNC machining might be the only foolproof way.... assuming it would ever be necessary in aluminum.

    While it looks pretty stout inside to me I think the overall thing most will notice between this B58 and a 2JZ-GTE is that the older engine, being designed with late 80’s methods, was ensured its strength and durability with an excess of alloys in certain areas and of course by means of its very dense and thick iron block.

    Today all of these parts in the B58 are designed first completely in computer assisted environments with metal properties and theoretical stress able to be simulated.

    They didn’t have all of that real time computer assistance when the 1JZ-GTE and 2JZ-GTE series were first designed. Maybe only some in 1989-1992.

    And yet we have a stout engine here that may be capable of 1000whp itself. We’ll see.

    Since 2JZ’s have in extreme cases been taken into 1300whp-2000whp territory I wonder if those extreme stress environments might be the only areas where the old over-designed high nickel content iron block 2JZ’s will still hold their own unchallenged.

    But then again how many people will be going beyond 1400whp anyway? Some but realistically only so many.

    And hey... maybe these new B58’s really are that strong as well or at least nearly so. I’m interested to see what people will do!
     
    MLG Tofu Shop, Oxytal, jm6k and 8 others like this.
  4. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    Subaru STI
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Location:
    Chicago, IL.
    Posts:
    1,189
    Liked:
    2,135
    Garage Profiles:
    2
    Abram, how about I turn this question around a bit...so we don’t go down a bad path.

    Now that someone has officially dissected the B58 in the MKV, what makes you believe this engine is NOT a 1000hp capable bottom-end?
     
    Novice_Mentality likes this.
  5. AHP

    AHP Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    '93 Supra TT Hardtop, '09 Corvette ZR1, '07 Corvette, '13 G37x, '10 Escalade ESV
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Location:
    CLT, NC
    Posts:
    142
    Liked:
    233
    Garage Profiles:
    1
    There is no "we" -- I'll pass, thanks. It's your assertion to back up. Considering you took the time to go back and screen shot a 6 month old post to reaffirm your point would leave one to believe you have something worthwhile to share in support of it...?
     
  6. Memphis

    Memphis Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Justin
    Car(s):
    White Launch Edition
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Location:
    Memphis,TN.
    Posts:
    60
    Liked:
    85
    Occupation:
    Heavy Equipment Sales
    This was awesome to watch!
    Thanks for sharing.
     
  7. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    Subaru STI
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Location:
    Chicago, IL.
    Posts:
    1,189
    Liked:
    2,135
    Garage Profiles:
    2
    That’s what I thought...
     
    Novice_Mentality likes this.
  8. Saeedali78

    Saeedali78 Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Saeed
    Car(s):
    2jzgte IS300
    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    Location:
    Oman
    Posts:
    50
    Liked:
    109
    Occupation:
    Airfield and Terminal Operations Controller
    I have built a 2jzgte before piece by piece and I can see so many similarities, most importantly the closed deck design.
    The engine is amazing, the tech used is advanced yet so simple.
    I am happy to see the oil squirters like the 2jzgte, oil being cooled by the coolant, and many more.
    You can already tell it is relatively an easy engine to build, minus the backwards timing chain:doh:.
     
  9. KahnBB6

    KahnBB6 Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    '93 Lexus SC300 5-speed 2JZGTE R154 LSD
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Location:
    Florida
    Posts:
    219
    Liked:
    432
    ^^The backwards timing chain design is indeed an odd choice. Camshaft changes are an engine-out procedure and the sideways engine stand mount for such a long engine (and supporting all the weight only on one side of it) is a new one on me. I get it that with a timing chain you should have a very long interval between required changes but putting it onto the rear is an uncommon design choice, isn't it?

    Still, it should only need to be messed with for very involved engine builds or high mileage servicing.

    Do any other BMW I6 turbo engines come configured that way or is it just a B58 quirk?
     
  10. Saeedali78

    Saeedali78 Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Saeed
    Car(s):
    2jzgte IS300
    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    Location:
    Oman
    Posts:
    50
    Liked:
    109
    Occupation:
    Airfield and Terminal Operations Controller
    That's a first for me too.
     
    KahnBB6 likes this.
  11. s219

    s219 Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Doc
    Car(s):
    BMW X3 M40i, BMW M2 Comp, Honda S2000
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2019
    Location:
    Virginia USA
    Posts:
    243
    Liked:
    266
    Pretty sure BMW has put a rear timing chain on other engines (not all) because I remember hearing mechanics gripe about it before. It was done on the B58 for weight distribution, to move the weight away from the front of the engine. The oil filter, oil cooler, VANOS, controls, and timing chain were moved to the back of the engine for this purpose.
     
    Vaevictum likes this.
  12. Matador

    Matador Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    '87 E30, '95 Mk4 Supra, '03 Legacy GT
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Location:
    W.I.
    Posts:
    210
    Liked:
    561
    Very much like the closed deck design. Not a fan of the rear timing chain. Pistons look interesting. Love the oil squirters. Not a fan of all the plastic bits. Would happily sacrifice a few extra pounds for longivety (I know that's the direction almost all manufacturers are going in these days, but still....)

    Interested to see how far it can be pushed bone stock and how well it holds up at those power levels. Can't imagine what these will be capable of 20 yrs down the road.
     
  13. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    Subaru STI
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Location:
    Chicago, IL.
    Posts:
    1,189
    Liked:
    2,135
    Garage Profiles:
    2
    I am willing to bet that; oil filter, oil cooler, electric water pump, and intercooler relocation kits will be hot sellers for this car. Probably already in CAD by one of the tuners.

    Where you at AMS??? :p
     
    KahnBB6 likes this.
  14. CarGuy11

    CarGuy11 Active Member

    Car(s):
    2016 C7 Corvette Z51, 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2019
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Posts:
    30
    Liked:
    15
    Was there an oil separator (catch can)?
     
  15. AHP

    AHP Well-Known Member

    Car(s):
    '93 Supra TT Hardtop, '09 Corvette ZR1, '07 Corvette, '13 G37x, '10 Escalade ESV
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Location:
    CLT, NC
    Posts:
    142
    Liked:
    233
    Garage Profiles:
    1


    Predictable and par for the course with you --- make baseless claim and when called out to defend, vehemently and desperately deflect. If you had any technical insight to share on the matter in defense of your claims then there'd be no reason for you not to. There is a very obvious reason, though...
     

Share This Page

Loading...