Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[ginsuown]

M2 starts at $54,500, Cayman at $55,300. It has to be less than that. From all we have heard, sounds like those two are the closest competitors. If you look at Vettes and Mustangs, 370Z, even in the $40s it's pretty uncompelling. Sure you can spend $100k on a Cayman, but a loaded M2 is still under $60k. I imagine you'll be able to option up a Supra too.

Compared to M2 and Cayman, big things it's missing include 1) a decent transmission option (manual or DCT) 2) a luxury/performance marque. Subtract a few grand for the transmission and at least $5k for the economy branding, and we're looking at high $40s, maybe $50,000.00, tops.

Again even $45,000 for a car with the specs we've seen seems expensive. And at any price, a ~330 horsepower car just doesn't get me very excited to begin with. There's going to have to be a lot of extra whiz bang and warm and fuzzies that come along with it to justify the price.

I'm hoping the actual specs are a lot better but I'm afraid that ship has sailed. But I'm hopeful nevertheless.

I think everyone just overlooks how big of a factor weight is. If the rumors are true this car is going to be in another class altogether from the M2. The M2 is almost 3500lbs and still manages 0-60 in around 4.2, if the Supra really weighs under 2900lbs and has around the same torque as the N55 (369ft-lbs), then 0-60 in 3.8 is completely plausible. Corvette speed in a straight line, and gt86 weight, I'll take this car any day for ~$60k.

No one complains that the Cayman is a poor value for only 350hp for $67k starting. Like many sources have mentioned, the ethos of this new Supra is going to be lightweight performance. The only car I could imagine that compares to it might be the Alpine A110, which I believe is over $70k.

On a side note as well, things that have been hinted at include adaptive suspension/magride and an active wing.

You can't look at plain horsepower without looking at the weight of the car as well. I think this car is going to be one hell of a rocket. The first of it's kind to offer this kind of performance at an affordable price.

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[MA617M]

well said

 

[ginsuown]

well said

I don't get what the big deal is about this car being disappointing. When I look at these rumored stats I just imagine an S2000 with actual torque, and modern tech/suspension. This car is going to be a monster!! I really think the top trim Supra should match all of the Cayman S's specs, and surpass some of them, while coming in at a $10k-$20k discount.

I think I also read somewhere the earlier test mules were running 7:40 on the Nurburgring? And this was with the camouflage cladding on, limiting the effectiveness of the car's aero.

 

[MA617M]

Yeah, hard to be disappointed in a car that's 90% rumours at this stage. I agree. Everything so far points to a very sharp tool

 

[Levi]

Sports cars do not sell. They then better make them cheaper. M2 is also the last small compact BMW/M car. Next gen goes FWD. Mercedes SLK/SLC will have no successor. Same for Nissan Z. No S2000 successor.

 

[jm6k]

Sports cars do not sell. They then better make them cheaper. M2 is also the last small compact BMW/M car. Next gen goes FWD. Mercedes SLK/SLC will have no successor. Same for Nissan Z. No S2000 successor.

 

[DevonK]

718 Cayman S with FI F4 is heavier than Cayman S with NA F6.

Interesting - but that added weight may or may not be due to the engine weighing more, as the 718 is a complete redo, with virtually a whole new body and chassis.

 

[DevonK]

It would be wonderful if the Supra came in at under 2900 lbs @ 330 hp with a price of $40k or less. But that may not be realistic.

If the Supra were to be constructed using traditional, mainstream materials and components, it would probably weigh about the same as the 370Z, a slightly smaller car with a heavier, older engine that crushes the scales at 3292 lbs. Dropping 400 lbs from that will not come cheaply. Consider what design and engineering choices will be required - expensive choices such as making extensive or exclusive use of aluminum suspension components, using a very high percentage of extremely high strength premium steel in the unibody for a better strength to weight ratio, going with lightweight wheels, and fabricating most if not all of the body panels out of aluminum, perhaps even making some minor use of carbon fibre.

If I had to guess, I'd think all these choices together will probably add somewhere between $6000-$9000 to the Supra's MSRP (compared to a 3300 lb version of the car).

 

[anthracite]

The Supra has never been a "sports car". It's a GT car that has a large enough interior, comfortable ride, and plenty of power to boot while still offering world class handling and braking. It was meant to compete against the likes of the ZR1 Corvette, Viper, Porshe 911 Turbo, etc. It appears Toyota is going another route though. If the car is actually called Supra then it only shares the name and nothing else with the predecessors.

Steve K.

 

[DevonK]

^ True - but the reality of what Toyota is doing has been known for some months now, heritage fans can only cry over the spilt milk for so long...

 

[Modal170]

^ True - but the reality of what Toyota is doing has been known for some months now, heritage fans can only cry over the spilt milk for so long...

Introducing

The Toyota 2000GT!

 

[Lexusisf]

Ha ha

 

[Modal170]

Ha ha

They could jsut call it the Toyota GT

Gran Tourer and a nice ring to it.

 

[Lexusisf]

If it is true that we will not see the street version at Geneva, will they announce the final specs for it?

 

[Modal170]

If it is true that we will not see the street version at Geneva, will they announce the final specs for it?

Most likely specs of the racing version with the hope they said being tuned from the production car, meaning it is possible to reach this level of tune with money and work.

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