Toyota Supra Spied with Production Bumper, Side Vents and Wheels!

[gymratter]

..which FR platforms have a lower hood in this day and age? not even miata..

i should have been more specific, but i was thinking of the video interview of the FT86 with Autoexpress where the designer said the bonnet would have to be raised to meet the UK pedestrian safe law or something along those lines.

the C7 is the closest thing that comes to mind.

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[Levi]

..which FR platforms have a lower hood in this day and age? not even miata..

That is the part of many of the big problems with today's cars. Even FR cars have FF car worthy front overhangs.

Lexus LC is the closest one can get today to get the ideal Honda S2000.

 

[gymratter]

That is the part of many of the big problems with today's cars. Even FR cars have FF car worthy front overhangs.

Lexus LC is the closest one can get today to get the ideal Honda S2000.

i totally forgot about the LC. i read it has some shocks that pop up the hood to protect pedestrians in a collision.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

There is a count down on the Geneva page. I would much rather see a new rendering made.

https://www.gims.swiss/en/

 

[Timster1990]

@A70TTR @Guff I have a question,

I'm sure most of you guys wondered this as well. As far as what you know and can estimate, was it Toyota or Subaru that was responsible for not producing a 86/BRZ with more power? I hear on good information that it was Subaru's decision, but then sometimes I hear the opposite. and why?

To me it appeared as if they both completely ignored what the owners wanted. In addition they never publicly addressed it.

 

[HKz]

@A70TTR @Guff I have a question,

I'm sure most of you guys wondered this as well. As far as what you know and can estimate, was it Toyota or Subaru that was responsible for not producing a 86/BRZ with more power? I hear on good information that it was Subaru's decision, but then sometimes I hear the opposite. and why?

To me it appeared as if they both completely ignored what the owners wanted. In addition they never publicly addressed it.

it was both along with countless of other problems...the power issue has a lot of different facets to it and it would only exponentially make the car more expensive and less desirable in those respective classes hence why Mazda has not done any high power variant with their Miata besides the short lived Mazdaspeed NB Miata...and imagine, that took nearly 15 years for that variant to come out, so 86 fans are spoiled, we've only waited 6 years so far! Also, accounting for inflation, a Mazdaspeed Miata started at $33 K for a menial bump in power!

Look at the 370Z. Starts at $29 K but for $45 K you can get the Nismo variant for an extra 18 HP. Now imagine trying to engineer the 86 twins to have the power that the cry babies want from the factory. On top of the engineering that needs to go into the powerplant, now you need to upgrade everything else...trans, wheels, brakes, tires, etc.. Clearly we're at a higher price now, competing directly against cars like the 2 series. Then when those power addicts step inside they see the $25 K interior and start crying that it looks cheap and ain't worth its higher price tag. Should Toyobaru then keep dumping even more money to satisfy the small but very vocal minority who claim they won't touch a twin unless it had "real" power? It is understandable with how much of a waste of time and money it is for 2 economy car brands to invest beyond what they've already had. You can argue they could have followed the muscle car strategy of creating a high HP platform which has a cheap base engine that more people can afford but if that was the case I don't think we would be having this conversation because the twins probably wouldn't have the tremendous handling that we've come to love at $25 K. I would have bought a higher power 86 if they had it but I'm totally happy with the FA20 and I get why they haven't come out with more power.

That is the part of many of the big problems with today's cars. Even FR cars have FF car worthy front overhangs.

Lexus LC is the closest one can get today to get the ideal Honda S2000.

LC? it sure has a very sloping hood but to compare that to a S2000 is a bit of a joke. the S2000 is indeed perhaps the last modern FR chassis with an incredibly low hood. But even so, cars like the 86 and Miata still have very low hoods, so I'm not sure why it matters since I can only see the fender arches of either car when I'm in the driver's seat and I'm average height at just under 6 feet..

 

[PREDATOR786]

@A70TTR @Guff I have a question,

I'm sure most of you guys wondered this as well. As far as what you know and can estimate, was it Toyota or Subaru that was responsible for not producing a 86/BRZ with more power? I hear on good information that it was Subaru's decision, but then sometimes I hear the opposite. and why?

To me it appeared as if they both completely ignored what the owners wanted. In addition they never publicly addressed it.

I think it was Tada San that wanted to keep things simple.

No turbo = less expensive
Twins were created as kind of a blank canvas for owners to get creative with.

Plus I think they knew all along the Supra was making a come back so they didn't want a more powerful 86 to creep into that territory.

Just my take on things but the gurus can enlighten us.

 

[The Comedian]

My money is on Subaru. I mean they have kept the STI at 300HP for over 15 years :lmao:

I’m betting a lot of people, myself included, will be trading in the 86 and getting the Supra because we all wanted more power. If the Supra doesn’t give me what I want, then I’ll turbo the BRZ and call it a day

 

[tfoxyr]

My experience is that when you want to buy a sports car , you make an emotional purchase so to be let down by performance is unacceptable . Also they could offer one model with its current price with NA engine and one model with turbo / supercharger with maybe 5-6k difference , i mean there are solutions , the question is how commited is someone to find them . I believe these 2 offerings could satisfy people ( like me ) that wanted more power and are willing to pay some extra , and the people that want the car to feel like it is now. As for the question i believe it is toyota actually keeping things as they are now , because the 86 is some sort of testing the waters and training their engineers . If you want to make all of a sudden cars that are engaging and fast , you have some options which include hiring engineers from established brands like the hyundai N did ( they hired some bmw M guys ) , or try to make collabs with these people to see how they are working.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Damn pedestrians!

 

[Timster1990]

It just astounding to me that other manufactures can execute a higher output trim levels with the same hurdles that @HKz mentioned. For example the GTI, Speed 3, Evo, STI, Focus ST, Mustang, Civic Type R and so on.

But when we talk about the 86/BRZ platform these challenges are apparently to difficult for the likes of Toyota and Subaru? Hmm....guess I'll never really understand, even a Flat 6 or S/C option would have been great, just 50-60 more hp and TQ I would certainly have bought it.

Thanks for answering HKZ, I suppose it sounds like it was a mutual decision rather then one sided?

 

[Bakerr6]

It just astounding to me that other manufactures can execute a higher output trim levels with the same hurdles that @HKz mentioned. For example the GTI, Speed 3, Evo, STI, Focus ST, Mustang, Civic Type R and so on.

But when we talk about the 86/BRZ platform these challenges are apparently to difficult for the likes of Toyota and Subaru? Hmm....guess I'll never really understand, even a Flat 6 or S/C option would have been great, just 50-60 more hp and TQ I would certainly have bought it.

Thanks for answering HKZ, I suppose it sounds like it was a mutual decision rather then one sided?

I'm on my third motor in those cars as we speak and can tell you that from a reliability standpoint, it leaves much to be desired when boosted. I will tell you though that when I was running around 310rwhp, it still felt extremely balanced, even with stickier tires.

Now I'm up to around 390rwhp and it has a different character and feel to it.

 

[Levi]

It just astounding to me that other manufactures can execute a higher output trim levels with the same hurdles that @HKz mentioned. For example the GTI, Speed 3, Evo, STI, Focus ST, Mustang, Civic Type R and so on.

But when we talk about the 86/BRZ platform these challenges are apparently to difficult for the likes of Toyota and Subaru? Hmm....guess I'll never really understand, even a Flat 6 or S/C option would have been great, just 50-60 more hp and TQ I would certainly have bought it.

Thanks for answering HKZ, I suppose it sounds like it was a mutual decision rather then one sided?

Do you know the EVO is 10 years old? And that non GTI variants of Golf sell in millions?

 

[2jztks]

Come on Toyota release something were dying over here!! These last few weeks are going to be the longest in history. Tick-Tock

 

[HKz]

It just astounding to me that other manufactures can execute a higher output trim levels with the same hurdles that @HKz mentioned. For example the GTI, Speed 3, Evo, STI, Focus ST, Mustang, Civic Type R and so on.

But when we talk about the 86/BRZ platform these challenges are apparently to difficult for the likes of Toyota and Subaru? Hmm....guess I'll never really understand, even a Flat 6 or S/C option would have been great, just 50-60 more hp and TQ I would certainly have bought it.

Thanks for answering HKZ, I suppose it sounds like it was a mutual decision rather then one sided?

like I said though, the engineering is totally different...none of those cars you've mentioned were necessarily designed from the ground up to be a great handler with a small engine. Plus it is very difficult to compare the 86 to the STi/Type R/Focus RS/Golf R, etc..coupe/RWD enthusiasts don't usually care for hatches or FWD based platforms. The Miata is the only comparable platform currently on sale.

Be realistic..how much do you think they should/would charge for a 86 with a flat 6 (even the WRX STi doesn't get one) or a turbo 4 with the extra HP/torque you're wanting along with all the other components needed to uprate everything? You're going to easily jump from $25 K to the mid $30 Ks which in America it would cause the 86 to compete more directly with say a 2 series. If you think we have it rough, go check out Toyota 86 and BMW 2 series prices in Germany right now. The current 86 with its "weak" engine is the same price as a base 2 series with a turbo 4! So imagine, in these markets your wish would just not make any sense, it would be highly overpriced in several markets. But as I said, Toyota could have developed a platform with a strong engine from the ground up along with offering weaker powerplant options, like a Mustang, but then the base engine wouldn't be as cheap or it'll be a porker like the 3 muscle cars.. can't have it all..but i digress the mk5 supra seems like it will fill that niche

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