2020 Supra Transmission Chat - Manual, Dual Clutch, or Auto?

[Spilner]

I had the biggest smile on my face when i saw a Manual 86 today

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[Jdmuscle]

Toyota estimated a 500 million dollar cost to adapt a manual with the Toyota Safety System and BMW i6 engine. They estimated a 20% take rate on the manual vs the automatic. The amount of people who would buy a manual MKV would not justify the 500 million dollar investment.

A manual didn't save the MKIV. Enthusiasts didn't save the MKIV.

Lol.. you believe that? Cite the Arcticle that lied about that to you. Man you love getting annoyed.. you are still here.

 

[BrettS]

Lol.. you believe that? Cite the Arcticle that lied about that to you. Man you love getting annoyed.. you are still here.

It was A70 that had said it would cost roughly that much

 

[Jdmuscle]

It was A70 that had said it would cost roughly that much

Toyota has fully integrated a manual to TSS 2 already. Maybe when A70 states that cost it was before any manual was ever mated to work with TSS. New Corolla hatch has an all new 6spd that is fully mated to TSS 2. Maybe A70 can come and correct me if I’m mistaken.

It shouldn’t take much to adopt that know how to another transmission. Besides.. if this is fully using BMW electronics, why not just use their safety tech and avoid the cost as they have manuals that work with all sorts of safety features. Who really wants TSS anyways in a sports car!!

 

[solidsamir]

Lol.. you believe that? Cite the Arcticle that lied about that to you. Man you love getting annoyed.. you are still here.

That's from our forum insider. A7, he's been right about everything else so far. Go look at his post history.

Toyota has fully integrated a manual to TSS 2 already. Maybe when A70 states that cost it was before any manual was ever mated to work with TSS. New Corolla hatch has an all new 6spd that is fully mated to TSS 2. Maybe A70 can come and correct me if I’m mistaken.

It shouldn’t take much to adopt that know how to another transmission. Besides.. if this is fully using BMW electronics, why not just use their safety tech and avoid the cost as they have manuals that work with all sorts of safety features. Who really wants TSS anyways in a sports car!!

Ya well the manual they have is on a toyota platform with toyota parts and testing. This is a BMW platform with BMW parts and they are letting BMW do most of the testing.

Toyota is committed to TSS in every car as part of their agreement with all other car makers and the United States Government.

 

[supraboi]

That's from our forum insider. A7, he's been right about everything else so far. Go look at his post history.

No he hasn't, and before everyone starts jumping on me even he said so himself. Due to: A. miscommunication and B. the nature of things changing on the project.

 

[solidsamir]

No he hasn't, and before everyone starts jumping on me even he said so himself. Due to: A. miscommunication and B. the nature of things changing on the project.

(March 24, 2018) "I got some clarification, not that it was needed, in that the manual thing was specifically in regards to BMW systems integration and not being worthwhile. I had thought to a degree that they were not willing to spend in general due to the way this was explained, but that apparently was an incorrect assumption.

Low take, lesser production overall, and no incentive for other Toyota cars due to being bmw based in this case. So it is all about money in other words."

The only thing he was wrong about apparently was assuming they no longer wanted a manual anywhere in their lineup. Apparently what the junior engineer was referring to (in the following quote) was the Supra manual and integrating TSS with BMW electronics in the car.

And Guff nailed it.

My final information for you all:

Spoke with a junior engineer and they confirmed the manual was left out due to projected take rate in the US being 20%, with the US also projected to be just over half of all global sales.

That alone did not doom the manual though, apparently US safety mandates along with Toyota compliance in things like collision protection, lane guidance, etc is what did it.

It was going to cost $500m to develop and implement a system capable of moving past these issues and as such they decided to not bother. Apparently going forward, Toyota will no longer build any new manual vehicles which is more or less already done. It is also directly related to why the 86 has no planned updates at this time; not the only reason though.

There is no actual consideration for a manual at this time.

 

[Lexusisf]

What I am trying to understand is why Solid and LexusIsf are going out of their way to fight us on the reasoning of why we want a manual???

Can we not have hope, can we not have a plea, can we not have a desire to fight for what a sportscar should be?

How could you guys just continue to shoot down our hopes and dreams. An enthusiast celebrates individualism not conformity.

Its like you guys are fighting against us and not with us. And its seriously getting annoying. We are buyers just like you guys and all we want is to be happy.

For the record, I hope a manual is offered, I have voted for it on polls here and on other sites. I have owned lots of manuals, camaros mustangs, nissan 300zx twin turbo’s and prior to my isf a g35 6 speed manual, lots of fun...However based on everything I have read here and other sources, it does not appear a manual wil be offered, at least in the beginning.

You can be angry at Supraboi and me and anyone else that has the opinion a manual will not be offered, but your time and energy would be better used expressing it to Toyota

 

[supraboi]

(March 24, 2018) "I got some clarification, not that it was needed, in that the manual thing was specifically in regards to BMW systems integration and not being worthwhile. I had thought to a degree that they were not willing to spend in general due to the way this was explained, but that apparently was an incorrect assumption.

Low take, lesser production overall, and no incentive for other Toyota cars due to being bmw based in this case. So it is all about money in other words."

The only thing he was wrong about apparently was assuming they no longer wanted a manual anywhere in their lineup. Apparently what the junior engineer was referring to (in the following quote) was the Supra manual and integrating TSS with BMW electronics in the car.

He's been wrong about how the car looks as well. He said there was not vents by the doors or sides of the front bumper. Point in case, I'll wait for the official press release from Toyota.

 

[vb22]

I'm pretty sure this has been post before, but 50% of M2 sales are manuals. Has anyone thought maybe people put out false statements to throw us off from their real plans?

 

[Lexusisf]

Yes....Lets hope...anything is possible, maybe the long delay for specific details will be a good thing...

 

[Jdmuscle]

A70 himself stated that enough noise from the community can swing things as well. Also.. the amount of press asking the chief engineer a question and him stating no to manual and the reaction from folks should be ample amount of market data that this car without a manual will fall off many many people’s list. What on earth did Toyota come up with the 20% take rate for manuals?

 

[HKz]

A70 himself stated that enough noise from the community can swing things as well. Also.. the amount of press asking the chief engineer a question and him stating no to manual and the reaction from folks should be ample amount of market data that this car without a manual will fall off many many people’s list. What on earth did Toyota come up with the 20% take rate for manuals?

Corvette & M4, which are arguably the closest comparisons for the Supra, both have pretty abysmal percentages.

 

[Guff]

Corvette & M4, which are arguably the closest comparisons for the Supra, both have pretty abysmal percentages.

Yeah it's really sad, but such is the truth of the market. I still want a manual, but when you read about it, its not much of a surprise that Toyota doesn't see it as a financially feasible idea.

...there’s a 20 percent take rate for manuals for the M2, M3, and M4 in the US.

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-told-us-it-s-keeping-the-manual-alive-because-of-american-enthusiasts

Across the board, the take-rate on the 8-speed automatic transmission was 77.9%. For Z06, 70.9% of buyers selected the 8-speed automatic.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2017/06/09/production-statistics-for-the-2017-corvette-model-year/

 

[Jdmuscle]

Yeah it's really sad, but such is the truth of the market. I still want a manual, but when you read about it, its not much of a surprise that Toyota doesn't see it as a financially feasible idea.



https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-told-us-it-s-keeping-the-manual-alive-because-of-american-enthusiasts



http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2017/06/09/production-statistics-for-the-2017-corvette-model-year/

100% of Vipers were manual from 1992 to 2017..

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