All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut!

[Dannyvandelft]

@Dannyvandelft you have to be logical when taking into consideration specs of a car. You own a MK5 so I am sure there is more “lean” to that platform (which is a fantastic platform). However, if we are talking hard numbers right now, base to base variations….the Z takes the gold. Even the premium Supra isn’t (on paper) outperforming the base Z. Now, if we want to be more specific, let’s wait for the Nismo Z vs. the Premium Supra. For now, the Z has the edge for; power, drivetrain options, and price which is going to be a HUGE factor. A $40k Z with $20k+ in tuning is going to be really hard to beat with a stock Supra….to get into a Supra Premium, it’s $60k!!!

The MK5 is badass…no doubt. Yet, you can’t close the book on progress by other carmakers. Expect there to be faster, more powerful, and less costly cars to be coming as more and more makers are finding ways to use less to get more. The Z is a prime example.

I disagree. The 40k Z will have all the flaws I mentioned before. The manual, the open diff, the smaller brakes, and it's still heavier. And has less torque, and less horsepower as we know the 2021 Supra makes well beyond 400 crank.
The performance model might be closer, but that won't be 40k. So which is it, a similar performance Z for a similar price as the base 3.0 Supra? Or a 40k Z that won't even get close?
On paper the Z is worse. Performance wise, not to mention fit and finish. Go step from a 370z into any BMW.

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[PerformanceSound]

I disagree. The 40k Z will have all the flaws I mentioned before. The manual, the open diff, the smaller brakes, and it's still heavier. And has less torque, and less horsepower as we know the 2021 Supra makes well beyond 400 crank.
The performance model might be closer, but that won't be 40k. So which is it, a similar performance Z for a similar price as the base 3.0 Supra? Or a 40k Z that won't even get close?
On paper the Z is worse. Performance wise, not to mention fit and finish. Go step from a 370z into any BMW.

Yeah I agree the fit and finish isn’t the greatest on Z’s (trust me, I’ve owned four of them throughout the years). Even with a next step up in models, with an LSD, Brembo’s, and leather….how much more will that be? Not close to $60k. As for the dyno numbers vs paper….we still don’t know what the Z will make on the dyno, on paper its more than the Supra. Let’s wait and see what the real deal will be. Take my word on this, the Z will be far more popular platform because it’s not really “new”….that’s not a bad thing.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Yeah I agree the fit and finish isn’t the greatest on Z’s (trust me, I’ve owned four of them throughout the years). Even with a next step up in models, with an LSD, Brembo’s, and leather….how much more will that be? Not close to $60k. As for the dyno numbers vs paper….we still don’t know what the Z will make on the dyno, on paper its more than the Supra. Let’s wait and see what the real deal will be. Take my word on this, the Z will be far more popular platform because it’s not really “new”….that’s not a bad thing.

I'm sure it will be more popular because it has a more attractive price point. But you get what you pay for. You pay less, because you get less. The base 3.0 Supra is what? $53k? The Performance Z won't be that far below it fully optioned. The Nismo could even be more.
Let's look at the other side, if the Supra was built as a BMW Z4 coupe, it would have a price starting with 7. So for what you get as a whole, Performance, quality, the whole shebang, the Supra is the better deal. At any trim.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

I disagree. The 40k Z will have all the flaws I mentioned before. The manual, the open diff, the smaller brakes, and it's still heavier.

To each their own, that's a plus for me.

 

[Chgu]

The amusing thing about all the "on paper" arguments right now is that the "paper" for the Z has some glaring omissions, so uhh we're just making assumptions about it. The comments from Nissan so far are that the VR30 is basically unchanged, it will weigh "a bit more" than the 370, that they're "not chasing numbers," and they improved the 0-60 times by 15%, which sounds a lot like them setting our expectations to be reasonable. Even the price is "around 40k," which might end up being 42-45k for all we know.

I get that people are excited for the latest and greatest, and Nissan is obviously holding out on some level to let hype build, but nothing short of the price has sounded especially revolutionary to me. Because of all the vague details, I honestly think the Z fans are gonna be a little let down in a few areas. It might not go around a track as fast as its competitors, certain B58 engines that are rated with lower horsepower are way more competitive than expected, old issues are still present, etc.

Honestly, there's stronger arguments on the American car side for "it cost less than the Supra, has a manual, and makes more power," but I guess this is the old "JDM" rivalry

 

[suicidaleggroll]

Yeah I agree the fit and finish isn’t the greatest on Z’s (trust me, I’ve owned four of them throughout the years). Even with a next step up in models, with an LSD, Brembo’s, and leather….how much more will that be? Not close to $60k. As for the dyno numbers vs paper….we still don’t know what the Z will make on the dyno, on paper its more than the Supra. Let’s wait and see what the real deal will be. Take my word on this, the Z will be far more popular platform because it’s not really “new”….that’s not a bad thing.

Where do you keep getting $60k? I've never seen a MKV listed for that. Fully decked out premiums are $56k tops, when I got mine they were all going for $50k. The last couple of months they might have started going for more due to shortages, but that's not the "normal" price, and it will either be cleared up before the Z hits the lots or they'll both have an added price hike due to shortage. And that's the premium, the base model is even less. I'm pretty sure when I got my car a few months ago, there was a brand new 2021 base model 3.0 on the lot for $47k.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

I know I hear a lot of folks clamoring about the Z having a manual so I'm anxious to see the take rate by transmission. I believe initially the manual will be higher in year one and then the auto will completely annihilate the sales in the long run(especially if the acceleration difference is around .5 second). People always bitch about manuals going away but they need to put up or shut the hell up IMHO!!!

It will be, it just won’t sell as much as the automatics will. Most of the people who complained about the Supra being auto only weren’t in the market of being able to own one… same thing will happen with the Z if it’s starting at 40K.

I posted the sales and trims in the old Proto Z thread, but the auto vs manual for the 370Z was about 50/50 throughout the whole 12 years.

 

[AHP]

The Performance model will almost certainly be 45-47k at most; undercutting the 3.0 by a good margin. The only meaningful option is the transmission if you discard the 240 unit Proto spec. I already posted the spec sheets here: https://www.supramkv.com/threads/all-new-2023-nissan-z-makes-world-debut.10467/post-149672


And WGAF about 'fit and finish' on a cheap 400HP twin turbo sports car with a mansmission? There is absolutely nothing special (let alone great) about the Supra (BMW) build quality for that matter. It's all rubber, plastic and pleather with a splash of CF. My 2021 literally has more squeaks and rattles than just about anything I've ever owned and that is no exaggeration. The passenger seat (among other things) rattles over any bump unless someone is sitting in it.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

The amusing thing about all the "on paper" arguments right now is that the "paper" for the Z has some glaring omissions, so uhh we're just making assumptions about it. The comments from Nissan so far are that the VR30 is basically unchanged, it will weigh "a bit more" than the 370, that they're "not chasing numbers," and they improved the 0-60 times by 15%, which sounds a lot like them setting our expectations to be reasonable. Even the price is "around 40k," which might end up being 42-45k for all we know.

The displacement is just a hair up. The designer guy said the base will start below the 2.0.

Q60 = 2997cc
Z = 3042 cc

https://www.infinitiusa.com/vehicles/coupes/q60/models-specs.html

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/t...ial-release-specs-pics-videos-wallpapers.418/

 

[Dannyvandelft]

To each their own, that's a plus for me.

I'm obviously talking in terms of performance. Let's face it, the manual is a handicap in that department.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

I'm obviously talking in terms of performance. Let's face it, the manual is a handicap in that department.

Not if you drive like this guy. ?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Not if you drive like this guy. ?

Oldie but a goodie.

 

[Evolution]

Where do you keep getting $60k? I've never seen a MKV listed for that. Fully decked out premiums are $56k tops, when I got mine they were all going for $50k. The last couple of months they might have started going for more due to shortages, but that's not the "normal" price, and it will either be cleared up before the Z hits the lots or they'll both have an added price hike due to shortage. And that's the premium, the base model is even less. I'm pretty sure when I got my car a few months ago, there was a brand new 2021 base model 3.0 on the lot for $47k.

I was going to say the same thing. Sticker on mine was almost 58k. I got it for 51k. You know all too well that there is going to be a markup on the Z, for probably close to a year. So ya, if it is stickered at 45k, you better believe they are going to mark it up to 55k. To top that off, if the Z really does take away Supra sales, I bet there are going to be some really nice discounts on the Supra to try to reel people back in.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Where do you keep getting $60k? I've never seen a MKV listed for that. Fully decked out premiums are $56k tops, when I got mine they were all going for $50k. The last couple of months they might have started going for more due to shortages, but that's not the "normal" price, and it will either be cleared up before the Z hits the lots or they'll both have an added price hike due to shortage. And that's the premium, the base model is even less. I'm pretty sure when I got my car a few months ago, there was a brand new 2021 base model 3.0 on the lot for $47k.

Maybe you aren't looking hard enough or the ones in your area don't have retarded markups, but a quick look on autotrader is already showing as high as $69,870 on a 2022 model.

I was going to say the same thing. Sticker on mine was almost 58k. I got it for 51k. You know all too well that there is going to be a markup on the Z, for probably close to a year. So ya, if it is stickered at 45k, you better believe they are going to mark it up to 55k. To top that off, if the Z really does take away Supra sales, I bet there are going to be some really nice discounts on the Supra to try to reel people back in.

Yes, but are we forgetting all the markups when this car 1st car came out? $75k, $80k, even $100k+. This applies to all new cars. Just wait it out of you don't have to have the latest and newest toy.

 

[AHP]

I'm obviously talking in terms of performance. Let's face it, the manual is a handicap in that department.

Speak for yourself...



I'm looking forward to this:






And I'll happily bang gears all day long in the slower car rather than simply hold the wheel straight in the quicker car.

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