New (Unconfirmed) Details and Specifications of US-Spec MKV Supra:

[Levi]

It is not the first time BMW and Toyota collaborate on engines, even if that is fairly recent and did not happen many times. North Americans might be unfamiliar with European diesel engines and its implication.

Toyota has been well known for making heavy duty diesel engines for trucks, and these remain for the foreseeable future, but Toyota has clearly indicated not having any interest in producing diesel engines for passenger cars, the last ones being the ND and AD, and focus on hybrids, now not taking into account battery electrics and hydrogen fuel cells. The ND diesel engine was used for small city cars and hatches, and the AD for passenger cars. These engines were designed for FF-T cars, but the 2.0-2.2l diesel (AD) was also to be be had for a FR-L car, the IS200d/IS220d. Toyota never made diesel engines with more than 4 cylinders for passenger cars, 5, 6 and 8 cylinders were and are only reserved for BOF trucks, unlike the Germans that make I6, V6, V8 for there luxury passenger cars.

As Toyota phased out non-heavy duty diesel engines, but there still was need to sell diesel in Europe, beside their gasoline and hybrids, (all this before #dieselgate) Toyota uses the WW engine as 1.6l for its small hatch Auris and MPV Verso, and 2.0l for its sedan Avensis and SUV RAV4. This engine is modified BMW N47 engine. It has a 84 mm bore and 90 mm stroke, as its predecessor the M47 and its successor the B47. Unlike the M47 that was iron, the N47 is alloy. Sidenote: BMW I4 and I6 engines share many parts, difference being primarily the number of cylinders. BMWs engines were mainly built for RWD cars, but even the M47 was modified for FWD, namely for Rover and and Land Rover. Finally this engine was used in the Mini. It made financial sense to use this BMW motor in European Toyota diesels.

But this partnership (project based) dates even further back. Before anything BMW-Rover, BMW always only made engines for RWD cars. With the Mini, this changed and they needed engines for FWD. Mini gasoline engines were Tritec engines, not directly BMW engines, and for diesel needed another one, it was the Toyota ND, yes BMW used a Toyota diesel engine. The engine was chosen for being compact and light to fit in the Mini. But it was unreliable and had problems. Next generation Mini, BMW went with PSA both for diesel and gasoline, but they also added the transverse N47, found later at Toyota as WW. Finally the third (present) generation Mini, introduced BMWs new modular FWD platform as well a new modular engine family for both transverse and longitudinal mounting, with diesel engines B37/B47/B57 and gasoline engines B38/B48/B58, 3, 4 and 6 cylinders, 6 only longitudinal mounting for obvious reasons.


The new Supra is in fact nothing new or shocking for the automotive industry, it is simple business.



For those interested in more detail:
https://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/the-toyota-alliances-bmw-part-1-the-first-volley/
https://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/the-toyota-alliances-bmw-part-2-the-alliance-deepens/

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[MLG Tofu Shop]

I feel if people are not satisfied,
they will just tune the living daylight out of the new Supra. Isn't that what people did with A70 and A80 Supras? Well assuming this new one is really easy to get big power without sacrificing reliability.

On another note, maybe bring back the MR2??? Sit in between the 86 and Supra? What do you think?

 

[Spilner]

Exactly! The main reason I have not purchased a $60k-$70k MKIV TT Supra is because it's not new...It's old, out of warranty, and will require another $15k-$20k to get it the way I want it. This is why I have been looking at GTR's....not because im a fanboy, but because out of the box, it has a report card good enough for me to justify it's ~$100k price tag as a new car. One would be nuts to buy a MKV Supra to rip it apart right away to make 1000HP. That will take time, just like the MKIV's....1000HP happened at least 15years later. That doesn't mean the enthusiasts shouldn't buy them....or the tuners shouldn't buy them. Right now, based on the info we know, I can't justify the MKV Supra's ~$60k price tag.

Can't justify the 60K price tag? it's always being tested with Porsches!

 

[Spilner]

i feel like while we're at arms about the MKV, the JP Fanbase will be buying MKVs on Day One

 

[twntrbo03']

i feel like while we're at arms about the MKV, the JP Fanbase will be buying MKVs on Day One

It will sell overseas and here as well. I think its going to look good and have some potential if it is in fact easily tunable and reliable. I think we are just a little different than most people since most of us are fanatics when it comes to this car... at least I am

 

[Patchaaron]

On another note, maybe bring back the MR2??? Sit in between the 86 and Supra? What do you think?

That would be great and supposedly it's been on a conversation (from what I've read on this forum before.) but looking at the market trend I really doubt that Toyota will be adding too many sport cars to their line up. a r(?)w50 would make my day though.

 

[Modal170]

I feel if people are not satisfied,
they will just tune the living daylight out of the new Supra. Isn't that what people did with A70 and A80 Supras? Well assuming this new one is really easy to get big power without sacrificing reliability.

On another note, maybe bring back the MR2??? Sit in between the 86 and Supra? What do you think?

That would be great and supposedly it's been on a conversation (from what I've read on this forum before.) but looking at the market trend I really doubt that Toyota will be adding too many sport cars to their line up. a r(?)w50 would make my day though.

An MR2 can exist but considering that Toyota has no Mid engine configuration, they'd have to go out and ask for some help most likely. They have two options, and only one that would be acceptable.

Honda has the NSX, s660 and beat

Porsche have the cayman setups.

For sake of price, Toyota can trade between the honda engineers and themselves. Hybrid tech for Honda moving forward?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-5-nd-front-and-gt-r-rear-is-epic-119404.html

Cause if Toyota can make something like the above a reality, for 39-44k, I'd be impressed. Don't expect it to be as light as a Lotus.

But a man can dream. A 2500 lbs, 250 HP car with a high revving engine and a chassis that's better than the 86 but not as rigid as the Supra would make it a demon on wheels.

 

[Levi]

That would be great and supposedly it's been on a conversation (from what I've read on this forum before.) but looking at the market trend I really doubt that Toyota will be adding too many sport cars to their line up. a r(?)w50 would make my day though.

Probably Toyota's golden era in terms of sports cars, with the Celica, MR2, Supra, not to forget IS and GS.

But a man can dream. A 2500 lbs, 250 HP car with a high revving engine and a chassis that's better than the 86 but not as rigid as the Supra would make it a demon on wheels.

You know the Alpine A110 weighs 2432 lbs and makes 249 HP?

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

i feel like while we're at arms about the MKV, the JP Fanbase will be buying MKVs on Day One

Oh yeah without a doubt. They sold more A80s and 86s in Japan than any other markets.

 

[Patchaaron]

You know the Alpine A110 weighs 2432 lbs and makes 249 HP?

no one in America even knew that car existed before this comment(I mean I didn't know).

 

[HKz]

no one in America even knew that car existed before this comment(I mean I didn't know).

then you aren't really into cars ^^

 

[Modal170]

Probably Toyota's golden era in terms of sports cars, with the Celica, MR2, Supra, not to forget IS and GS.




You know the Alpine A110 weighs 2432 lbs and makes 249 HP?

Do you think Toyota can make a car like that? I know the alpina exist, I am just thinking in Toyota's case, that would never happen

 

[Levi]

Do you think Toyota can make a car like that? I know the alpina exist, I am just thinking in Toyota's case, that would never happen

Every European, Japanese, American and now Korean and soon even Chinese carmaker can make a car like that. But if they do is another question, which is a definite no, at least the way their business case goes. Toyota? Not a chance for now, not even electric.

 

[Patchaaron]

then you aren't really into cars ^^

LOL if you say so...

Not like knowing anything about it could do me any good for at least the next 25 years anyways...

 

[greaseman]

LOL if you say so...

Not like knowing anything about it could do me any good for at least the next 25 years anyways...

I really hate this regulation, but on the bright side, we'll finally be able to import final gen GT4s starting next year...

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