Several HPDEs in, looking into mild track upgrades

[decodeddiesel]

I appreciate everyone's opinions, but I'm going to keep on doing what I've been doing. I'm not doing anything else to my car this year modification wise. I'm going to keep going to track days, car control clinics, and driving schools. In fact, I have a car control clinic tomorrow at LRP.

I've gotten a lot of good feedback from my instructors, and I'm making good progress while staying safe. I'd honestly say that I'm driving the car comfortably at 8/10s or so and really enjoying it. I give plenty of point-bys and try to have fun and unwind from my otherwise stressful life. If that's doing it wrong, oh well. ?

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[razorlab]

I appreciate everyone's opinions, but I'm going to keep on doing what I've been doing. I'm not doing anything else to my car this year modification wise. I'm going to keep going to track days, car control clinics, and driving schools. In fact, I have a car control clinic tomorrow at LRP.

I've gotten a lot of good feedback from my instructors, and I'm making good progress while staying safe. I'd honestly say that I'm driving the car comfortably at 8/10s or so and really enjoying it. I give plenty of point-bys and try to have fun and unwind from my otherwise stressful life. If that's doing it wrong, oh well. ?

You aren't doing anything wrong! I think it's super smart to not doing any more changes to the car and just drive. I have the same MO about things, which is why last year I didn't change anything on the car all year except for tires when they wore out. If you keep changing things, it's hard to gauge if it is you learning or the car changing. I'm kind of hard headed about that kinda stuff. Just ask @garudathree.

 

[Evolution]

Man you are so right about the blue group! We should/can start a "tales from instructor land" thread. But last HPDE, Head instructor pulled the ENTIRE blue group in for a talk. We focus on education and improvement- and their lines and passing were absolute dog crap.

Also been really questioning the SCCA track nights- they send any green out solo. Program does not have instructors????
last week at our track guy totaled a Viper. He was green and hit a curb in the esses with a high hp car with no skill to handle it out of sorts. Lucky he wasn't killed. Destroyed a 20' section of guardrail, engine was ripped free of chassis.

Why is it always a Viper? The last track event I did, the Viper driver was the worst one there. Although, it ended up being a Corvette that crashed, in a very odd spot at that.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Why is it always a Viper? The last track event I did, the Viper driver was the worst one there. Although, it ended up being a Corvette that crashed, in a very odd spot at that.

Those things are fucking death traps! ?

 

[razorlab]

Why is it always a Viper? The last track event I did, the Viper driver was the worst one there. Although, it ended up being a Corvette that crashed, in a very odd spot at that.

Here it's always a bmw. Wait a second...

 

[Evolution]

Those things are fucking death traps! ?

Years ago, at an auto-x event, I got to watch a Viper go up a 45° wall that was a good 200ft off the track. No idea how that was even possible....

Here it's always a bmw. Wait a second...

BMWs in the beginner group is where its at! Reminds me of the 24 hour Lemans race over the weekend when it was raining. Cars off the track every 5 seconds.

 

[razorlab]

BMWs in the beginner group is where its at! Reminds me of the 24 hour Lemans race over the weekend when it was raining. Cars off the track every 5 seconds.

How about this Mustang doing Mustang things in front of me. I still have no idea how he even did that.

 

[Rocksandblues]

^^^^ driving w his rear view mirror
mustangs still win the prize for the most offs here

 

[kaj]

I will add something possibly controversial...

The Supra is the WRONG car to learn racing/tracking. It is too fast and has too much torque. In a e46,miata,frs if you blow a corner you lose so much momentum it is really obvious and MAKES you concentrate on Track craft, braking, apexes, momentum, etc.

If you blow a corner in the Supra you just mash the Go peddle. There is no feedback

I instructed a Supra kid couple weeks ago. The program sends out your email and the kid was all: i requested you, i see your videos, im excited, bla bla. it was nice. Day of event- he had never been on a track- and he is talking about getting sponsors, doing TT, and warning bells are going off.
Nice kid- really- but his driving was crap, he tried bullying the track with horsepower and ended up spinning off track even with all the nannies on. you can hear me in his video "brake brake brake!" He just got cocky and thought after 2 sessions he was a race car driver.

The other thing i want to support is just because you made it to SOLO status keep getting instructed periodically. You are solo because we think you can race around safely, not because you are ready for competition. While instructing i see so many green solo guys who are safe, but the lines and laps are crap. you don't know what you don't know and you can have a ton of seat time without being able to actually learn anything and get better.

That sounds more like a driver issue than choice of car, though.
I think someone could become a faster driver by learning car behavior and lines at a slower pace, of course. Maybe if I'd even say most people. It worked for me (first time on track was in a 200hp FWD car).
I'm not sure I'd say that, globally, putting a noob in a fast car causes them to be a poor driver, though It definitely helps ?

It also reminded me that the intermediate group is BY FAR the most dangerous group to be in at track events. I very quickly got myself out of that group. It's basically everything you said but 200% more crazy. People know enough to think they are kings, but don't know enough when things go wrong. Also, 90% of the people are ego driven and never give point-bys.

Now that I have to be competitive, I was urged to get out of the point by groups. There was no way I was going to put down any decent lap times getting stuck behind some of these drivers.
Best move I ever made. The drivers are smarter, more experienced, and a million times more courteous than the intermediate groups that I used to place myself in.
I feel safer in the higher groups. I should have made that move a long time ago.
Honestly, it feels more natural to see someone in my mirrors or peripheral And then let them buy then it does the awkwardness of seeing them, pointing, making sure they see my finger to go by, letting off the gas a bit, etc.
No wonder all the newbies blow it. That s*** is complicated lol
I never realized it until I got out. ?

 

[decodeddiesel]

This is my "momentum" car, a 2007 Cayman Base with a 5-speed and about 220hp at the wheels. She's currently in a state of flux, but eventually will get stripped, caged, full pillow ball suspension, and full aero. This car is right at the 12.5 lb/HP mark. I definitely cut some teeth on this car and have future plans.

 

[razorlab]

This is my "momentum" car, a 2007 Cayman Base with a 5-speed and about 220hp at the wheels. She's currently in a state of flux, but eventually will get stripped, caged, full pillow ball suspension, and full aero. This car is right at the 12.5 lb/HP mark. I definitely cut some teeth on this car and have future plans.

Love those German miatas.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Love those German miatas.

I just can't bring myself to sell her lol. Lot's of time, sweat, and $$ in that silly beetle thing. ?

 

[Evolution]

I just can't bring myself to sell her lol. Lot's of time, sweat, and $$ in that silly beetle thing. ?

Sell it! I said the same about my odd beetle thing but after 10 years of owning it, I sold it and have only a few regrets. I went a little too far into the racecar world to actually enjoy it since I like driving my "racecars" on the street. It did wonders on the track though.

 

[romanLegion9574]

I will add something possibly controversial...

The Supra is the WRONG car to learn racing/tracking. It is too fast and has too much torque. In a e46,miata,frs if you blow a corner you lose so much momentum it is really obvious and MAKES you concentrate on Track craft, braking, apexes, momentum, etc.

If you blow a corner in the Supra you just mash the Go peddle. There is no feedback

I instructed a Supra kid couple weeks ago. The program sends out your email and the kid was all: i requested you, i see your videos, im excited, bla bla. it was nice. Day of event- he had never been on a track- and he is talking about getting sponsors, doing TT, and warning bells are going off.
Nice kid- really- but his driving was crap, he tried bullying the track with horsepower and ended up spinning off track even with all the nannies on. you can hear me in his video "brake brake brake!" He just got cocky and thought after 2 sessions he was a race car driver.

The other thing i want to support is just because you made it to SOLO status keep getting instructed periodically. You are solo because we think you can race around safely, not because you are ready for competition. While instructing i see so many green solo guys who are safe, but the lines and laps are crap. you don't know what you don't know and you can have a ton of seat time without being able to actually learn anything and get better.

Full disclosure, I did start tracking with the Supra. It seems like the biggest thing is attitude, and going in assuming you know nothing is probably the best attitude to take in. It really helps, as you said, to get instruction especially on a new track regardless of experience, chatting and riding with people who know the track, and watching Youtube laps of similar cars to get an idea of what to expect.

We're not really spoiled for choice as you guys in the Northeast are for tracks, so most of us do make the trek out to the same track over and over each summer and get in a lot of seat time there.

But I do fully agree the Supra allows you to cover up a lot of mistakes with a bootful of throttle, and it takes some experience to feel where you're losing time.

 

[garudathree]

what i found as the biggest driver of growth was to pick a rival who's a reach in terms of skills/car specs, figuring out what they're doing really well, and trying to surpass them. i've actually met one of my personal heroes/targets on track this past weekend, in a verus packaged 991.2 RS (#1 on the LRP garmin list for 2023)



a bit of a caricature for how we should be on track (audio up)

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