GR Supra 101: Routes to big power

[Mimosa]

do you have a link to this data?

I second the request for data. I’d also wonder if the clutch is included in the 450 ft lbs rating. Stands to reason the clutch is a frangible link in the system to protect the transmission.

It's a ZF S653. They are rated for 443lb-ft. There's no after market support to build them up like a Tremec T56... aside from a clutch.

Upgraded clutch part number: 16340-TDKR-A

Transmission Part number for the Supra: GS6L50TZ

Not really the right choice if you're planning on making big power.

Sponsored

 

[Nocturnal]

It's a ZF S653. They are rated for 443lb-ft. There's no after market support to build them up like a Tremec T56... aside from a clutch.

Upgraded clutch part number: 16340-TDKR-A

Transmission Part number for the Supra: GS6L50TZ

Not really the right choice if you're planning on making big power.

Thanks for the info!

I guess it's not clear to me what the weak link is in the 443 lb-ft. Is the clutch included in that rating?

 

[Mimosa]

Not sure. There also isn't much documented out there on these transmission hitting big numbers. Mostly people asking if there are rebuilds available or how to switch out to a T56.

Was reading through other threads on this site with someone saying that the ZF S6-53 is capable of 1000hp... but I see nothing out there to support this. Every F80/G80 that is hitting that number is not using this transmission. Not sure where that person got there information. Everything is either the 7 speed DCT or 8 speed ZF.

I did a shit ton of research on this because I wanted a manual and also wanted to hit big numbers. But I have not found any success stories or people that build up these transmissions, so I decided on going back to the automatic.

 

[AJRMKV]

Not sure. There also isn't much documented out there on these transmission hitting big numbers. Mostly people asking if there are rebuilds available or how to switch out to a T56.

Was reading through other threads on this site with someone saying that the ZF S6-53 is capable of 1000hp... but I see nothing out there to support this. Every F80/G80 that is hitting that number is not using this transmission. Not sure where that person got there information. Everything is either the 7 speed DCT or 8 speed ZF.

I did a shit ton of research on this because I wanted a manual and also wanted to hit big numbers. But I have not found any success stories or people that build up these transmissions, so I decided on going back to the automatic.

Botti has brought a few to 500ish whp and none of them broke anything as far as I know. There was a youtuber that drove a hybrid turbo manual with an upgrade clutch that didn't have any issues either.. It doesn't seem like any of these guys are on the forums though.

I guess i'll have to find out when I build it in the spring..

 

[ColonelAdama]

Botti has brought a few to 500ish whp and none of them broke anything as far as I know. There was a youtuber that drove a hybrid turbo manual with an upgrade clutch that didn't have any issues either.. It doesn't seem like any of these guys are on the forums though.

I guess i'll have to find out when I build it in the spring..

Yep, as far as I know there are several out there with femto-unlocked MT cars with Stage 2 OTS tunes well over 500 lb*ft WTQ. I'm sure some have had to do the clutch though.

FYI - the car makes over 400 WTQ stock, and mine is catless with piggyback - likely 450 WTQ or more. That's well over the 443 lb*ft at the crank that its rated for.

 

[revhappy]

I don't own a Supra (yet), but my Evo went way past the stock clutch torque limit without issues. When I went for a new turbo, we put a new clutch in and the tuner said the stocker was in great condition. I don't launch, but I think you may have some leeway with the clutch if you are kind to it.

That being said, I hate heavy clutches so it seems big power can hamper drivability at least for me.

 

[Mimosa]

Botti has brought a few to 500ish whp and none of them broke anything as far as I know. There was a youtuber that drove a hybrid turbo manual with an upgrade clutch that didn't have any issues either.. It doesn't seem like any of these guys are on the forums though.

I guess i'll have to find out when I build it in the spring..

Yep, as far as I know there are several out there with femto-unlocked MT cars with Stage 2 OTS tunes well over 500 lb*ft WTQ. I'm sure some have had to do the clutch though.

FYI - the car makes over 400 WTQ stock, and mine is catless with piggyback - likely 450 WTQ or more. That's well over the 443 lb*ft at the crank that its rated for.

The transmission is rated for 443. I don't know what to tell you guys other than the cars are on borrowed time. I'm sure it can handle a bit more over that, but I'm not trying to push 800wtq on the ZF S6-53.

 

[ColonelAdama]

The transmission is rated for 443. I don't know what to tell you guys other than the cars are on borrowed time. I'm sure it can handle a bit more over that, but I'm not trying to push 800wtq on the ZF S6-53.

I'm not sure about borrowed time, but I will definitely start paying attention if the many cars making 100+ more wtq than me start blowing up their trans. My personal power goals do not exceed 500 wtq.

Its likely the 443 rating is for the clutch. Who knows about the rest.

 

[Mimosa]

I'm not sure about borrowed time, but I will definitely start paying attention if the many cars making 100+ more wtq than me start blowing up their trans. My personal power goals do not exceed 500 wtq.

I feel people should be fine if they're not trying to do crazy power figures. The newer ZF 8HP51 is rated for 500nm to 560nm* (~370 to 415 lb-ft) of torque, but people can get it up to 600 before needing to get it built to prevent slippage.

The torque limits that are given by ZF are rated for 300,000KM (Around 185,000 miles) of usage. The torque rating is not the limit at which immediate mechanical failures will occur. Going over it will deprecate the lifespan and lead to it failing sooner.

But going well over the rating is when you'll have catastrophic failures. This is where your transmission turns into a box of rocks.

 

[Tacoma714]

I don't own a Supra (yet), but my Evo went way past the stock clutch torque limit without issues. When I went for a new turbo, we put a new clutch in and the tuner said the stocker was in great condition. I don't launch, but I think you may have some leeway with the clutch if you are kind to it.

That being said, I hate heavy clutches so it seems big power can hamper drivability at least for me.

 

[Mason]

Botti has brought a few to 500ish whp and none of them broke anything as far as I know. There was a youtuber that drove a hybrid turbo manual with an upgrade clutch that didn't have any issues either.. It doesn't seem like any of these guys are on the forums though.

I guess i'll have to find out when I build it in the spring..

500 =/= high hp Supra

 

[AJRMKV]

500 =/= high hp Supra

True, but my point was that these cars are well beyond the torque rating of the transmission which is approximately 410 ish wtq... a 500 whp supra is likely making 550-600 wtq.

 

[Andrew__a90]

I apologize if my comment is dumb but is there a way for someone to create a custom tune either with the unlock or JB4 that accounts for bolt on parts I’ve done like Exhaust, Intake, and Downpipe without messing with boost? My Supra is my daily and I’m wanting to get a downpipe as I already have the exhaust and intake and get a tune. I don’t want to push the car far outside its factory parameters and simply want it to account for my bolt on mods and make a little more power. I’d like to make around 450 to the wheels so around a 46 hp bump from stock. Thanks in advance.

 

[Thraxbert]

I apologize if my comment is dumb but is there a way for someone to create a custom tune either with the unlock or JB4 that accounts for bolt on parts I’ve done like Exhaust, Intake, and Downpipe without messing with boost? My Supra is my daily and I’m wanting to get a downpipe as I already have the exhaust and intake and get a tune. I don’t want to push the car far outside its factory parameters and simply want it to account for my bolt on mods and make a little more power. I’d like to make around 450 to the wheels so around a 46 hp bump from stock. Thanks in advance.

You don't make more power without adding boost or adding fuel octane. This is not the whole story, but it's 9/10ths of the law for your question.

 

[EddieNel]

I apologize if my comment is dumb but is there a way for someone to create a custom tune either with the unlock or JB4 that accounts for bolt on parts I’ve done like Exhaust, Intake, and Downpipe without messing with boost? My Supra is my daily and I’m wanting to get a downpipe as I already have the exhaust and intake and get a tune. I don’t want to push the car far outside its factory parameters and simply want it to account for my bolt on mods and make a little more power. I’d like to make around 450 to the wheels so around a 46 hp bump from stock. Thanks in advance.

Don’t worry about adding boost. Just do it. With those mods you should be very close to 450 whp. Add as much boost as you can. The engine can handle it.

Sponsored