Razorlab - 2020 LE build thread

[razorlab]

@razorlab I’ve been designing an intake for my stock powered supra and considering IAT for use at the track. So far I’ve found the speed engineering snorkel, and have been planning to add a fabricated heat shield as well using my stock airbox and an aftermarket turbo inlet pipe, possibly heat tape or gold reflective material for the intake plumbing. I just found your thread and your setup is very similar to what I’d dreamed up. Do you have any more info on heat soak or IAT with this setup?

I haven't really noticed any difference compared to OEM to be honest. In a good way.

The most impressive thing is that after 12 laps at Lime Rock, the wagner manifold is shedding 222F of heat out of the intake charge. This is with running about 27psi on E40.

I find it funny that some "I live my life a quarter mile at a time" people said the Wagner manifold was trash a while back. Yea, no.

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[zackarybyrd]

I haven't really noticed any difference compared to OEM to be honest. In a good way.

The most impressive thing is that after 12 laps at Lime Rock, the wagner manifold is shedding 222F of heat out of the intake charge. This is with running about 27psi on E40.

I find it funny that some "I live my life a quarter mile at a time" people said the Wagner manifold was trash a while back. Yea, no.

thanks man. It took me like three days to get caught up on this thread from front to back and there’s a ton of great info on here. You’re the man. I’ve been doing a ton of research trying to figure out what I want to do for my intake and when I saw what you’d done I felt vindicated like what I’m planning is gonna work. I also like your myth busting about aftermarket intakes and their negative effect on performance but I think it has a lot to do with how you’ve implemented it.
How did you choose the MAD intake and CTS inlet among all the many options out there? What are your thoughts on closed system like eventuri or infinity design using the SE intake duct and dabbed heat shielding versus the sealed heat shielded approach like the MAD and how you did it? (Other than obviously they’re expensive AF) is there anything you’d change if you were going to start your intake project over? For now I am avoiding modifying anything past the turbo for class compliance so no manifold yet.

 

[razorlab]

How did you choose the MAD intake and CTS inlet among all the many options out there? What are your thoughts on closed system like eventuri or infinity design using the SE intake duct and dabbed heat shielding versus the sealed heat shielded approach like the MAD and how you did it? (Other than obviously they’re expensive AF) is there anything you’d change if you were going to start your intake project over? For now I am avoiding modifying anything past the turbo for class compliance so no manifold yet.

Apologies for not seeing this before.

I chose the MAD intake because it was cheap. haha. Figured if it sucked I wouldn't have a big investment in it. It ended up working well.

I bought the CTS inlet and then Paradigm inlet. The paradigm inlet ended up fitting like ass and had a weird welded in bit for clearance that I wasn't too keen about. CTS is cast and fit well. I also leaned more towards the cast CTS because at some point I will be getting a bung welded in for a IAT sensor so I can log pre-turbo intake temps.

I'm usually not a fan of CTS parts but this one works and fits pretty well.

 

[razorlab]

Since I have a HPFP upgrade now I figured I would raise the boost in the low and midrange. Since I can now without maxing out the HPFP like I would with the OEM HPFP.

25-26 flat across made it a torque beast. Any undulations in the surface and the tires spin slightly, as you can see in the RPM plot.

The car was like this as I slightly puckered:

We'll see if I can manage this on track.

 

[whoop_ass]

what Software are you using to review your logs?

 

[razorlab]

what Software are you using to review your logs?

MegaLogViewerHD

 

[whoop_ass]

MegaLogViewerHD

Thank you kind Sir
Fantastic Build and through your thread i decided on the wagner

 

[razorlab]

Another Lime Rock track event today. Sucked overall because it was wet and cold for every session except for one. Since I kind of knew this was the only session that would be dry, I just stayed out lapping more than I usually do, drove like a maniac and annoyed some instructors.

 

[Z4m40i]

If anyone is curious, I pretty much maxed out my stock injectors with:

Pure700
Dorch HPFP
E40-E43

Out of injector window at around 27-28psi 6500rpm+

if you were to do this again, do you think the HPFP is a worthwhile upgrade for your goals, or would you have just done both the HPFP and injectors to give you more overhead?

 

[razorlab]

if you were to do this again, do you think the HPFP is a worthwhile upgrade for your goals, or would you have just done both the HPFP and injectors to give you more overhead?

Yea. It only maxes them out high in the RPM at that boost level. Now that I have added more boost in the midrange, which the upgraded HPFP is supporting, I am actually hitting higher MPH in the straight at my local track with 3-4 pounds less boost up top than before. So the HPFP allows more power under the curve.

As I dial it in more, it should go even faster. Not going to lie though, I have been eying the injectors as well, as I am also thinking of going bigger on the turbo as well. At some point the trans will become the power restriction, and I have no plans to spend $6000+ to upgrade it.

I actually had the trans tell me to F myself last week when I was testing the limits of the HPFP... oops. It was a unique situation so not a normal occurrence, but I also don't want to continue to test it.

 

[Z4m40i]

The cost of the transmission has been my main barrier into wanting to move to next power bracket. I’ve been enjoying the power of the new turbo, but it seems my tuner is constantly fighting the limitation of the HPFP in the midrange. It’s probably worth canning e40 with the stock fuel system for now. The last thing I want to do is upgrade the HPFP, then quickly find myself at the limit of the injectors… and then finding myself doing the transmission.

But to see that there is a reasonable power gain (and midrange fix) with just the HPFP alone seems worth the cost. ?

 

[kfer]

The cost of the transmission has been my main barrier into wanting to move to next power bracket. I’ve been enjoying the power of the new turbo, but it seems my tuner is constantly fighting the limitation of the HPFP in the midrange. It’s probably worth canning e40 with the stock fuel system for now. The last thing I want to do is upgrade the HPFP, then quickly find myself at the limit of the injectors… and then finding myself doing the transmission.

I would think about sticking with E20 and stock fuel system.

I had the same situation and my HPFP was already maxed out on E20 (however I have a bit more boost in the midrange and over 800Nm with E20). Then the tuner managed to avoid the crash by using a "softer" boost curve under 4000rpm.
Now I have installed the DS25-350 and the E40 works quite well, but my gearbox is reinforced (up to 1000Nm+).
I think if you switch to Dorch you'll want to use it to produce more mid-range torque (now you should get around 720-750Nm with that boost level, with Dorch would be 800++) and that will be too much for the gearbox (at least on the long term).

 

[razorlab]

The cost of the transmission has been my main barrier into wanting to move to next power bracket. I’ve been enjoying the power of the new turbo, but it seems my tuner is constantly fighting the limitation of the HPFP in the midrange. It’s probably worth canning e40 with the stock fuel system for now. The last thing I want to do is upgrade the HPFP, then quickly find myself at the limit of the injectors… and then finding myself doing the transmission.

But to see that there is a reasonable power gain (and midrange fix) with just the HPFP alone seems worth the cost. ?

The main reason I am running higher ethanol level (E40 instead of E30) is for higher knock resistance to keep the car more consistent on track if I decide to stay out all session or go to a track day in summer with a higher ambient temp. To note is that I always try to run more timing than less to keep EGT's in check under track use. Obviously I keep the timing within reason to help keep things consistent and safe. I run about 14-14.5* ignition timing out the top of the rev range. Keep in mind I have a higher compression 2020 2-port engine.

I could have went down to E20-E30 with the OEM HPFP but I decided not to because of the above.

So when I wanted to explore some more midrange power I decided to upgrade the HPFP so I could keep the same level of Ethanol.

For reference, here is my current boost level I used at the track even this last Monday. I also played around with gear based boost this event so there is more boost in 6th gear. You can see that the upgraded HPFP supports a good amount more boost at E40, with a good amount of HPFP angle head room.

A keen eye will also notice that I am testing out a slight rail pressure bump.

 

[razorlab]

Things are getting spicy end of the season but I think it's time for a larger turbo because I am running the Pure700 pretty hard at +90 WGDC. I have to say though, it has been a trooper, two track seasons being run hard, 50+ track days and taking it all.

The peeps that are curious (love you!) will see that the Compressor turbine power is so close in this log. Will update the self tuning thread soon!

I think I might send in my OEM core for a Pure800 and maybe? some S58 injectors to get this party going. I really do not want to lay down $6k plus for a trans upgrade though.

 

[Habu]

If you’re able to build a transmission yourself you may wanna take a look at Applied Torque Solutions diy kit. His Stage 1 kit is $3,300 & he’s running a sale right now up till October 31st for an additional 10% off.

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