A90 Toyota Supra vs G29 BMW Z4 Drag Race, Rolling Race & Brake Test

Half Vast

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A quarter mile comparo without out any of the other supporting contextual data is BS content for the superficial nouveau car guy.
Perhaps, but it makes for good Interwebs entertainment video providing some ammo as to whom has the bigger Johnson.
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s219

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It’s not a difficult question. The B58C has a headifold with water cooling, the B58D has a manifold without. The heads are different to support the different exhaust strategies.
Yep, correct. Now, the thing is, the headifold is not necessarily a plus for the Supra and could even be considered a disadvantage. It's primarily a strategy for better emissions. It will make tuning more challenging and certainly engine mods like porting/etc will become more of a challenge. I would not be surprised if tuners put a different BMW head and manifold in their Supras to gain more flexibility.
 

kona61

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Yep, correct. Now, the thing is, the headifold is not necessarily a plus for the Supra and could even be considered a disadvantage. It's primarily a strategy for better emissions. It will make tuning more challenging and certainly engine mods like porting/etc will become more of a challenge. I would not be surprised if tuners put a different BMW head and manifold in their Supras to gain more flexibility.
I have seen no proof that a headifold contributed negatively to power outputs.
 

s219

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I have seen no proof that a headifold contributed negatively to power outputs.
I haven't either, but it adds a lot of complexity that is only justified when chasing emissions goals (the other benefits such as weight reduction are minor). It will definitely limit what a tuner can do since they have less flexibility to rework the head.
 

imoj1

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Guys
I know its early
But based on this drag race 12s
How much additional hp supra needs to be in GTR/NSX territory?
Also what are the easiest way?
Turbo + exhaust?
 

Toyotawild

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In my experience head work is really only beneficial when pushing HIGH volumes of air. I should reiterate. Porting is only beneficial with large turbos and lots of volume. Polishing usually always benefits if done correctly but results are minute in well engineered heads. I would never port a street car you lose bottom end.
 

Toyotawild

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If I threw what little knowledge out that I know of the B58. My mods for power would be.
Catless downpipe
Tune
Intake

These three mods together should put you around 420 whp and lots of torque. Should go 11s pretty easy but I'm sure traction becomes an issue
 

Toyotawild

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Fuel is going to be our limiting factor with the direct injection and high psi fuel system. I actually think the headifold will help us push the car to higher boost with the added cooling. Instead of fuel and head only cooling we get another system cooling the exhaust as well. I've read it allows the engine to run leaner safely.
 

BRX

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The companies only parted ways on the styling and suspension tuning. The rest is all BMW, again, about the same if it was another BMW model. The engine is all BMW but the ECU tune was done to meet Toyota's specs (not by Toyota). Any differences in the engine are the same as you'd find between B58 variants within BMW's own model lineup (the Supra actually has a lot more in common with the Z4 than some BMWs do with their own cousins).

Toyota's involvement in the car has been overstated, as has BMW's influence. There is a ton of misinformation, not helped by bizarre lost-in-translation statements from Toyota. None of this is a bad thing, either way -- I love the car regardless (aside from lack of MT).
Wait, are you saying Toyota was given a locked ECU map and just accepted the tune given to them by BMW or are you saying the engine was physically tuned by BMW (ie, heads, turbo, cooling) and Toyota didn't mess with any of those parts?

I can accept the latter but to say a multi billion dollar company didn't tune an ECU that most tuners and even enthusiasts can tune very easily is logically not possible. I clearly remember A70 saying the earlier mules had more power and even Toyota tested the engine at higher levels of power (up to 700hp). In the video itself, you can see the shift points are different between the Z4 and the A90.

Engines, transmissions, or any miscellaneous parts costs money to manufacture in bulk and Toyota would be over their head (or budget) to re-engineer any of it and mass produce even a single part. But tuning an ECU is a one time thing that costs relatively nothing and can be easily modified on the go.

I'm sorry, but there is 0% chance Toyota didn't have access to every single option and map in that BMW ECU. If they didn't, I'm pretty sure they could have thrown a Denso ECU in there and get the same results. Toyota is pretty familiar with turbos and direct injections and that BMW ECU isn't anything special.
 

chnco

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What is your source? As you know, you’re contradicting many folks on this forum who have had contributed significant content.

The companies only parted ways on the styling and suspension tuning. The rest is all BMW, again, about the same if it was another BMW model. The engine is all BMW but the ECU tune was done to meet Toyota's specs (not by Toyota). Any differences in the engine are the same as you'd find between B58 variants within BMW's own model lineup (the Supra actually has a lot more in common with the Z4 than some BMWs do with their own cousins).

Toyota's involvement in the car has been overstated, as has BMW's influence. There is a ton of misinformation, not helped by bizarre lost-in-translation statements from Toyota. None of this is a bad thing, either way -- I love the car regardless (aside from lack of MT).
 

Jabba

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I clearly remember A70 saying the earlier mules had more power and even Toyota tested the engine at higher levels of power (up to 700hp).
I was just going to comment this.

I do believe the headifold would had added some complexity to tuning as well, but if Toyota tested the Supra to such high power levels it makes someone wonder. Just got to wait and see what the aftermarket can do.
 

s219

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Fuel is going to be our limiting factor with the direct injection and high psi fuel system. I actually think the headifold will help us push the car to higher boost with the added cooling. Instead of fuel and head only cooling we get another system cooling the exhaust as well. I've read it allows the engine to run leaner safely.
Actually, it's the opposite, the headifold puts additional load on the cooling system. It's there to extract heat from the exhaust to improve cold engine behavior and emissions, and potentially to cool the exhaust so that the cat can be made more efficiently and/or operate more efficiently. But on a warm engine, the headifold actually puts additional load on the cooling system. It certainly doesn't help the engine run cooler, nor is that the point.
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