A90 Toyota Supra vs G29 BMW Z4 Drag Race, Rolling Race & Brake Test

Bryster

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if you ever really own MK4 supra, and you lived with it for long years, you will quickly notice the sound tone of mk5, there is a pitch of the old Supra from the way it screams, this pitch sound not available in any BMW, surely Toyota intend to do it, and Tada-san said it himself in TFL interview that they have toned their own sound and its one of the points they are proud of.
this is simple point proof that they have their own development of the CAR regardless of the BMW hardware
MK4 was NA whereas MK5 is Turbo
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Think about base models. This GR Supra is the base model Supra. We have a GRMN one coming too. That's the "Turbo" equivalent.
Got it, that makes more sense. I was confused and wasnt thinking about Base to Base comparison
 

chnco

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Typical Fanboy here, you can argue this all day long. You realize how many parts on this car are from parts bin? Where do you think that transmission came from? Who do you think actually put together the car?

Every part on the car has a BMW stamp and BMW part number. All the interior switchgear, components, and seats are BMW. The software is BMW. And on top of that, the Z4 interior is more posh, the Z4 has a newer iDrive version, and some of the Z4's exterior details are more upscale. There is zero evidence that Toyota had to send materials to BMW because BMW's stuff wasn't good enough. That is the type of delusional thinking among one side of the Supra crowd that is just way out of whack with reality. Everyone is just grasping at straws looking for Toyota validation.

Me, I feel like I'm getting a world class BMW sports car at Toyota prices. Other than the styling and excellent suspension tune, nothing else on the car is really unique to Toyota.
 

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MK4 was NA whereas MK5 is Turbo
I'm comparing my old mk4(turbo) to this mk5 sound
Definitely there is similarities Toyota intend to create, Z4 and all b58 engines don't sound like the mk5 supra at all
I cant wait to check it myself but surely Toyota did something
 

alex2364

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I can see how people forgot, that is a serious stretch of imagination right there.
The only one with imagination around here is you. I can't count how many times you've posted lies with no evidence to back it up. The top 3 off of my head that I can think of:

1. Claiming your 8 year old BMW maintenance cost no more than $200 per year at the dealer when I know for a fact from my 3 BMWs since 2010 that isn't possible.
2. Claiming Toyota didn't tune the Supra in any way possible because it's the engine bay has BMW stamps and then back tracking from your claim.
3. Now claiming Toyota didn't tell BMW which parts to upgrade in the B58 because of Toyota's internal stress testing when this has been published by multiple auto magazines.

I like BMWs as much as the next guy but I keep an open eye on other automakers and this trolling is getting annoying. Just got back to Bimmerpost and you can go worship BMWs like the other people there.
 

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The only one with imagination around here is you. I can't count how many times you've posted lies with no evidence to back it up. The top 3 off of my head that I can think of:

1. Claiming your 8 year old BMW maintenance cost no more than $200 per year at the dealer when I know for a fact from my 3 BMWs since 2010 that isn't possible.
2. Claiming Toyota didn't tune the Supra in any way possible because it's the engine bay has BMW stamps and then back tracking from your claim.
3. Now claiming Toyota didn't tell BMW which parts to upgrade in the B58 because of Toyota's internal stress testing when this has been published by multiple auto magazines.

I like BMWs as much as the next guy but I keep an open eye on other automakers and this trolling is getting annoying. Just got back to Bimmerpost and you can go worship BMWs like the other people there.
Listen,

1. I totally stand by that claim. Nothing but basic maintenance for the 8 years I owned it. And please keep it in context with the other thread where I brought that up because a website projected $3200-3500 maintenance expenses for a BMW back to back 4-5 years out that made no sense and also had no details at all.

2. I said BMW coded it to Toyota specs and have never back tracked. The info about part #'s and BMW stamps is unrelated to that, it was written in response to someone who said Toyota provided BMW with "better materials". If they did, how did all these better materials have BMW part numbers already in the system? Even the goddam seats are based on legacy BMW parts under the skin, parts already in production on other BMWs (like many other things in the Supra).

3. Toyota did an engine teardown and came to the conclusion that the engine met their standards. They did not ask BMW to fix anything. They did however define conservative tune specs to meet internal goals for heat load and fuel requirements. All of this was discussed by Tada in open conversation.

If I was a troll, I would probably be really frustrated that I'm the only one being consistent. Everyone else is all over the place. Whether or not I am a troll, it *is* extremely frustrating that apparently I'm the only one able to be objective without constantly trying to boost Toyota at every turn. Toyota decided they couldn't make the Supra on their own, and they haven't had a high end sports car in their lineup for ~ 20 years. Too bad they had to partner with BMW and lean heavily on BMW techology, but it is what it is. Nobody forced Toyota to exist in the sports car desert for 20 years (and for those who say what about the 86, I owned an 86, it was a great driver's car but is not in the league of the Supra or a BMW M car).
 

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Here is another comparison vid.. heck if I know what they are saying..

 

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Listen,

1. I totally stand by that claim. Nothing but basic maintenance for the 8 years I owned it. And please keep it in context with the other thread where I brought that up because a website projected $3200-3500 maintenance expenses for a BMW back to back 4-5 years out that made no sense and also had no details at all.

2. I said BMW coded it to Toyota specs and have never back tracked. The info about part #'s and BMW stamps is unrelated to that, it was written in response to someone who said Toyota provided BMW with "better materials". If they did, how did all these better materials have BMW part numbers already in the system? Even the goddam seats are based on legacy BMW parts under the skin, parts already in production on other BMWs (like many other things in the Supra).

3. Toyota did an engine teardown and came to the conclusion that the engine met their standards. They did not ask BMW to fix anything. They did however define conservative tune specs to meet internal goals for heat load and fuel requirements. All of this was discussed by Tada in open conversation.


If I was a troll, I would probably be really frustrated that I'm the only one being consistent. Everyone else is all over the place. Whether or not I am a troll, it *is* extremely frustrating that apparently I'm the only one able to be objective without constantly trying to boost Toyota at every turn. Toyota decided they couldn't make the Supra on their own, and they haven't had a high end sports car in their lineup for ~ 20 years. Too bad they had to partner with BMW and lean heavily on BMW techology, but it is what it is. Nobody forced Toyota to exist in the sports car desert for 20 years (and for those who say what about the 86, I owned an 86, it was a great driver's car but is not in the league of the Supra or a BMW M car).
Are you sure about 2 and 3? We've found out that the MKV's go back to Japan for final QA before they ship them out to the dealerships.

As mentioned in other threads, the B58 is a clean slate redesign over the previous N-Series motor. Toyota has been working with BMW since 2012 on this project and has spent considerable money and time breaking down powertrain components and sending them back to Toyota R&D facilities in Japan for testing and failure analysis.

I think its safe to say that a company like Toyota hasn't forgotten that it has a reputation for reliability.
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/supra-reliability-with-a-bmw-drivetrain.1545/#post-34328
 

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Listen,

1. I totally stand by that claim. Nothing but basic maintenance for the 8 years I owned it. And please keep it in context with the other thread where I brought that up because a website projected $3200-3500 maintenance expenses for a BMW back to back 4-5 years out that made no sense and also had no details at all.

2. I said BMW coded it to Toyota specs and have never back tracked. The info about part #'s and BMW stamps is unrelated to that, it was written in response to someone who said Toyota provided BMW with "better materials". If they did, how did all these better materials have BMW part numbers already in the system? Even the goddam seats are based on legacy BMW parts under the skin, parts already in production on other BMWs (like many other things in the Supra).

3. Toyota did an engine teardown and came to the conclusion that the engine met their standards. They did not ask BMW to fix anything. They did however define conservative tune specs to meet internal goals for heat load and fuel requirements. All of this was discussed by Tada in open conversation.

If I was a troll, I would probably be really frustrated that I'm the only one being consistent. Everyone else is all over the place. Whether or not I am a troll, it *is* extremely frustrating that apparently I'm the only one able to be objective without constantly trying to boost Toyota at every turn. Toyota decided they couldn't make the Supra on their own, and they haven't had a high end sports car in their lineup for ~ 20 years. Too bad they had to partner with BMW and lean heavily on BMW techology, but it is what it is. Nobody forced Toyota to exist in the sports car desert for 20 years (and for those who say what about the 86, I owned an 86, it was a great driver's car but is not in the league of the Supra or a BMW M car).
1. Oil changes at my local dealer is around $125, what BMW did you own where you only needed 1.5 oil changes a year? I'll seriously buy one right now.

2. Badges still don't mean anything, youre welcome to refer to the two other posts explaining how that logic is poor.

3. Proof?
 

s219

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1. Claiming your 8 year old BMW maintenance cost no more than $200 per year at the dealer when I know for a fact from my 3 BMWs since 2010 that isn't possible.
Oh, and by the way, the whole point of me relaying my maintenance costs in that other thread was in response to someone wondering if the Supra would be expensive to maintain, based on the costs reported by another website for a BMW. My reply said that not only do I think the Supra will not be expensive to maintain, my actual BMW wasn't even expensive to maintain. If you disagree with my opinions on that topic, then you are basically saying that the topic's premise is correct and that the Supra will be expensive to maintain. So which is it? Was I trolling there too?
 

s219

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We've found out that the MKV's go back to Japan for final QA before they ship them out to the dealerships.
Well, people have already been tracking Supras shipping out of Bremerhaven direct to the US ports of entry. So if they are sending them to Japan then somebody is driving those boats really really poorly, because they are missing Japan entirely.

Seriously, it would make no sense at all to do that, I think common sense should tell you that.
 

s219

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1. Oil changes at my local dealer is around $125, what BMW did you own where you only needed 1.5 oil changes a year? I'll seriously buy one right now.

2. Badges still don't mean anything, youre welcome to refer to the two other posts explaining how that logic is poor.

3. Proof?

1. I was getting one service per year which was always VA state inspection and oil/filter change. Schedule dictated by the service reminder in iDrive. No tire rotation because the car had directional tires. Every so often (maybe every 3-4 years) there would be call for cabin air filter, wipers, and brake fluid change (not all at the same time). First 4 years were covered by BMW. I took over in year 5 but one year i had them do it when I was getting ready to trade-in the car, and it was $94 for the annual service.

2. I don't care about the badges either, was just pointing out many posts back that the parts/materials some people attributed to Toyota were legacy BMW, predating the Supra.

3. Proof -- several Youtube reviewers talked with Tada about engine reliability and he talked about how Toyota carefully analyzed the B58 and found it to meet their standards. Here is one of those reviews, with the URL going to that exact spot in the video (BTW, this guy is excellent and he has several great videos about the B58, ZF 8-speed, and Supra):



I saw the same detail mentioned in several other reviews as well.
 

justbake

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1. I was getting one service per year which was always VA state inspection and oil/filter change. Schedule dictated by the service reminder in iDrive. No tire rotation because the car had directional tires. Every so often (maybe every 3-4 years) there would be call for cabin air filter, wipers, and brake fluid change (not all at the same time). First 4 years were covered by BMW. I took over in year 5 but one year i had them do it when I was getting ready to trade-in the car, and it was $94 for the annual service.

2. I don't care about the badges either, was just pointing out many posts back that the parts/materials some people attributed to Toyota were legacy BMW, predating the Supra.

3. Proof -- several Youtube reviewers talked with Tada about engine reliability and he talked about how Toyota carefully analyzed the B58 and found it to meet their standards. Here is one of those reviews, with the URL going to that exact spot in the video (BTW, this guy is excellent and he has several great videos about the B58, ZF 8-speed, and Supra):



I saw the same detail mentioned in several other reviews as well.
1. That doesn't answer what car it was, that is cheaper than the average Toyota.

2. Of course it has older parts, but that doesn't mean Toyota didn't do any tuning.

3. The language here is particular and doesn't suggest no improvements were made. It says Toyota noted their concerns and that this engine passed all their internal requirements. Guff's video is worth watching about this.
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