Analysis, Comments & Reactions from the Web about the new Supra

[DesmoSD]

That is not what I said, I just think that he is a victim of nationalist pride.

He says the supra is "slow, cant stop and cant turn." But by what measures? The supra has the same stopping distance as the 2018 GTR from 70-0 in Car and Driver tests and no one says it is can't stop. He says it can't turn but in what regard? He says it is slow and although it definitely isn't the quickest car out there, 4.0s 0-60 is not slow for a stock car. And then says some nonsense about engine displacement as if that means anything.

Obviously the Supra is a disappointment to him, but it can still be a disappointment and a good car at the same time. I get that he is frustrated that the car uses BMW parts, but it is the only new Japanese car out right now. He should be frustrated that other Japanese car companies aren't making any performance cars.

STI hasn't had much change since 2003.
Evo is gone.
Eclipse is gone.
3000GT is gone.
RX-7 is gone.
RX-8 is gone.
S2000 is gone.
CTR although newly introduced here in the US it isn't new to japan.
NSX is new but not well received.
370z is as old as the iPhone.
Q60/Skyline isn't in Japan.
GTR is old and has been updated a few times but he has already mentioned he didn't like it.
(Miata/86/BRZ aren't performance cars so I did not include them in this list but are fun to drive nonetheless)

Toyota doesn't lose here because the Supra is a BMW, it wins because they are releasing a new car when no one else in Japan is.

Perhaps that’s why the 2021 has the strut tower braces. I’m sure he has his reasons for not liking the car. Maybe they’ll do a shootout.

mas921
#12Feb 19, 2020
IIRC, the GazooRacing development pro driver didn't like how the car understeered at the limit with the braces on. If I understood Tada-san correctly, It's not that they're needed from a torsional rigidity pov, rather it would create more rigid front bias vs the rear with the current springs/shocks/sway bars combo. and since "some journalists who can't drive for ****" had problems keeping the tail in check, i wouldn't be surprised if many of the handling upgrades moved the bias towards the rear (rendering more understeer at the limit)

Think of it this way, the chassis is a spring, connecting the 4 corners. A more rigid front means more % of the load transfer will take place there.
But more rigidity is ALWAYS good, especially at the radiator side because its basically gaping hole; bridged only by the crash bar. Make that stiffer and you have better (as in faster and more stable) steering response.

am butchering the subject for the sake of simplicity here, there is way more to it than simple "ugly" bars.

ex-BMW M-chief explains the idea behind front end chassis bracing
The whole video is ultra interesting since so many of the -awesome!- aspects he's explaining about the M4's chassis were carried over onto the A90.

Sponsored

 

[a90moe]

What makes you assume he doesn’t have any data?

I might be going on a whim but I bet he’s been building cars longer then you have. That was his honest opinion, chalk it up and move on. Not everyone is supposed to like the new Supra.

I never assumed he has no data, my point was he shared his opinion without any data for us folks to see relying solely on an opinion

He is free to bash the car, but why not provide atleast one useful thing to share instead of being too naive

Can't turn? Ok, understeer, oversteer? What exactly?
Can't stop? How or why, brake fade??

This is what I meant

 

[justbake]

Perhaps that’s why the 2021 has the strut tower braces. I’m sure he has his reasons for not liking the car. Maybe they’ll do a shootout.

I am not doubting that he doesn't have his reasons, but saying things "I thought it was impossible for a car to be so bad" is not characteristic of someone I would consider open minded especially when it follows the statement "It's a BMW anyway, it's a waste of money."

 

[DesmoSD]

I never assumed he has no data, my point was he shared his opinion without any data for us folks to see relying solely on an opinion

He is free to bash the car, but why not provide atleast one useful thing to share instead of being too naive

Can't turn? Ok, understeer, oversteer? What exactly?
Can't stop? How or why, brake fade??

This is what I meant

I hear ya but just because he didn't disclose any details or data, doesn't make it invalid? I don't think he's intentionally bashing it and believe he has driven enough cars to gauge what's good and what is bad.

I am not doubting that he doesn't have his reasons, but saying things "I thought it was impossible for a car to be so bad" is not characteristic of someone I would consider open minded especially when it follows the statement "It's a BMW anyway, it's a waste of money."

That's his view, it's a waste of money for him because he bought one. In contrast to Jonathon's review where did go into details how about the bad suspension and also mentions a lot of BMW parts. He didn't buy one, he just borrowed for the review.

That’s also, unfortunately, where the Supra starts to fall apart.

...but what Toyota really needs to take a look at is the Supra’s differential, suspension, steering and maybe even its tire selection.

Immediately apparent is that there’s no consistent breaking point for traction at the car’s rear, and thus no predictability in its handling. On one run, it gave up at a certain steering angle and speed. Those parameters kept changing as I went on—sometimes the differential could keep the car planted, while the tires broke loose elsewhere in nearly identical conditions. After a number of hours behind the wheel, I can say it feels like a multilayered issue involving the suspension alignment—chiefly the Supra’s camber—the e-diff’s locking settings, and how each plays into the temperature of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.

Unlike mechanical units, the e-differential never feels like it's fully confident in doling out torque, and there's no set point where it really starts trying. Power gets pushed to each rear wheel in unequal measure—and not in the good, torque-vectoring way. I entered a few corners hot and stabbed at the throttle to provoke oversteer, yet I never got the same reaction. The suspension geometry also feels off; handling is beyond sticky once you heat up the Super Sport tires, but getting to that point takes forever.

A recent video from Manthey Racing revealed that their particular Supra came from the factory with some odd toe and camber angles and generally poor alignment. Having not taken the Supra to a shop to test that—we’re still limiting our interaction with others—these issues might explain my own, anecdotal findings.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

 

[supraboi]

That was painful to watch. To save everyone from the 13 min snooze fest...

1. Its a BMW & questionable reliability
2. No manual trans (agree)
3. Doesn't look like Supra and fake vent
4. BMW jokes

 

[a90moe]

That was painful to watch. To save everyone from the 13 min snooze fest...

1. Its a BMW & questionable reliability
2. No manual trans (agree)
3. Doesn't look like Supra and fake vent
3.5. BMW jokes

Well thanks then

 

[jtsang25]

Well thanks then

These doesnt look like a supra comments are getting old. None of the past models looked the same.

 

[vb22]

 

[Axix23]

No offense, but I can careless about his worthless opinions. Of course he won't like it, its european made....

 

[justbake]

That's his view, it's a waste of money for him because he bought one. In contrast to Jonathon's review where did go into details how about the bad suspension and also mentions a lot of BMW parts. He didn't buy one, he just borrowed for the review.

That’s also, unfortunately, where the Supra starts to fall apart.

...but what Toyota really needs to take a look at is the Supra’s differential, suspension, steering and maybe even its tire selection.

Immediately apparent is that there’s no consistent breaking point for traction at the car’s rear, and thus no predictability in its handling. On one run, it gave up at a certain steering angle and speed. Those parameters kept changing as I went on—sometimes the differential could keep the car planted, while the tires broke loose elsewhere in nearly identical conditions. After a number of hours behind the wheel, I can say it feels like a multilayered issue involving the suspension alignment—chiefly the Supra’s camber—the e-diff’s locking settings, and how each plays into the temperature of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.

Unlike mechanical units, the e-differential never feels like it's fully confident in doling out torque, and there's no set point where it really starts trying. Power gets pushed to each rear wheel in unequal measure—and not in the good, torque-vectoring way. I entered a few corners hot and stabbed at the throttle to provoke oversteer, yet I never got the same reaction. The suspension geometry also feels off; handling is beyond sticky once you heat up the Super Sport tires, but getting to that point takes forever.

A recent video from Manthey Racing revealed that their particular Supra came from the factory with some odd toe and camber angles and generally poor alignment. Having not taken the Supra to a shop to test that—we’re still limiting our interaction with others—these issues might explain my own, anecdotal findings.

Of course it’s his opinion about the car and his opinion that it was a waste of money. I am just saying he is biased against the car and his review lacks substance.

You probably scrolled over it earlier but I did respond to that review by saying, “I truly respect journalists like this. Not only was he able to point out the good things about the car, he breaks down the bad things and and what makes them bad.”

 

[johnny_10196]

No manual
Doesn't like clam shell hood
Weird shape headlights/too big
BMW engine, needs a 3JZ
Price to high for a "335hp" car. Should have been $40k-$42k.

 

[Axix23]

No manual
Doesn't like clam shell hood
Weird shape headlights/too big
BMW engine, needs a 3JZ
Price to high for a "335hp" car. Should have been $40k-$42k.

He drives a BRZ..............................................

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

 

[jtsang25]

He drives a BRZ..............................................

Hes also a kid that hasn't had any seat time in a new supra.

Sponsored