2020 Supra BIG Turbo

[LS3Twins]

updates?

Packing the car up this week to head to PRI. The car is going in the show so if anyone is heading to the show feel free to stop by the Fluidyne booth and check it out. I will be back to the dragstrip as soon as the weather allows more passes.

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[ch1215g]

I have them posted on my Instagram. @LS3Twins

Thanks!

 

[LS3Twins]

A little update on my build. I will be driving the car out to Full Race Motorsports in Phoenix AZ. I am going to video the trip out there and will have my camera equipment on hand for photo opportunities that will come about. I'm looking forward to the drive as I will be driving from Charlotte NC all the way to Phoenix. I leave tomorrow around lunch and plan to be there by Friday.

The owner of Full Race stopped by the PRI booth and wants to add some upgrades to my kit and all he needed was for me to get the car to him. This will also give me garage space and about a month to work on the twin turbo LS3 M3 while the Supra is gone.

I went ahead and flashed the 93 tune in it. I'll make sure to take some pics of the Full Race facility while I'm there and post it up.

 

[TreyE]

A little update on my build. I will be driving the car out to Full Race Motorsports in Phoenix AZ. I am going to video the trip out there and will have my camera equipment on hand for photo opportunities that will come about. I'm looking forward to the drive as I will be driving from Charlotte NC all the way to Phoenix. I leave tomorrow around lunch and plan to be there by Friday.

The owner of Full Race stopped by the PRI booth and wants to add some upgrades to my kit and all he needed was for me to get the car to him. This will also give me garage space and about a month to work on the twin turbo LS3 M3 while the Supra is gone.

I went ahead and flashed the 93 tune in it. I'll make sure to take some pics of the Full Race facility while I'm there and post it up.

Could you provide a little more info on the work that went into the Fluidyne heat exchanger install? I am looking at doing it myself and would appreciate any insight into how hard or how long it took and what needed to be modified. Thanks!

 

[LS3Twins]

Could you provide a little more info on the work that went into the Fluidyne heat exchanger install? I am looking at doing it myself and would appreciate any insight into how hard or how long it took and what needed to be modified. Thanks!

Well I always recommend professional installation. I'm also not sure of your mechanic skills/resources or how long you've been working on vehicles. Here are a couple of notes:

• The stock radiator and heat exchanger sit in a 4 piece plastic housing. (Top, Bottom, and 2 sides) Similar to an E46 for the sides.
• The 2 side pieces have 3 places that need to be trimmed to allow a thicker cooler to be installed. This is very straightforward and can be accomplished with a dremel tool in less than 5 minutes.
• The transmission cooler has 2 tabs for mounting and they need a total of two holes drilled to mount to the new heat exchanger. The thicker heat exchanger moves the transmission cooler forward. The new heat exchanger comes with two mounting bungs and have the hardware included.

It's a drop in upgrade and very straight forward but it would definitely depend on your skill level to whether or not I would recommend it. If you have questions about how to disassemble the car to get to the heat exchanger then I would recommend taking it to a shop where they have a lift and the ability to drain the system and properly re-fill it.

The heat exchanger is definitely one of the first upgrades I would recommend. I was at 145 degrees on the drag strip waiting in line, it gets even worse when you cut the car off. Now I don't have to worry about it at all.

 

[TreyE]

Well I always recommend professional installation. I'm also not sure of your mechanic skills/resources or how long you've been working on vehicles. Here are a couple of notes:

• The stock radiator and heat exchanger sit in a 4 piece plastic housing. (Top, Bottom, and 2 sides) Similar to an E46 for the sides.
• The 2 side pieces have 3 places that need to be trimmed to allow a thicker cooler to be installed. This is very straightforward and can be accomplished with a dremel tool in less than 5 minutes.
• The transmission cooler has 2 tabs for mounting and they need a total of two holes drilled to mount to the new heat exchanger. The thicker heat exchanger moves the transmission cooler forward. The new heat exchanger comes with two mounting bungs and have the hardware included.

It's a drop in upgrade and very straight forward but it would definitely depend on your skill level to whether or not I would recommend it. If you have questions about how to disassemble the car to get to the heat exchanger then I would recommend taking it to a shop where they have a lift and the ability to drain the system and properly re-fill it.

The heat exchanger is definitely one of the first upgrades I would recommend. I was at 145 degrees on the drag strip waiting in line, it gets even worse when you cut the car off. Now I don't have to worry about it at all.

Thank you a bunch for the info, seems like I'll have a shop do it. Even though I feel I could do it I am a little weary about all the sensors etc on the front of the car I could potentially mess up.

 

[Camus]

Yet another dumb question. I see that everyone choosing to go with a big turbo also go for Meth injection, this because the stock fuel system is not capable of supplying the necessary fuel for a larger turbo. However, why the only solution is the Meth injection kit instead of a larger fuel pump and larger injectors? I don't see aftermarket fuel pumps or injectors, but there are a lot of meth injection kits. Wouldn't be better to fix the root cause?

The meth injection looks like a work around to me, the fact of having to fill it every once in a while and having an external controller along the tune, seems way more complex than having a better fuel pump / injectors. What am I missing?

 

[TreyE]

Yet another dumb question. I see that everyone choosing to go with a big turbo also go for Meth injection, this because the stock fuel system is not capable of supplying the necessary fuel for a larger turbo. However, why the only solution is the Meth injection kit instead of a larger fuel pump and larger injectors? I don't see aftermarket fuel pumps or injectors, but there are a lot of meth injection kits. Wouldn't be better to fix the root cause?

The meth injection looks like a work around to me, the fact of having to fill it every once in a while and having an external controller along the tune, seems way more complex than having a better fuel pump / injectors. What am I missing?

These cars use direct injection, therefore its very expensive to get bigger HPFP which feed the direct injection. Instead you would use auxiliary fuel through a feed rail which would use car injectors on top of the direct injection. This would use the LPFP, there are people using this method as well it's just more money. Plus meth is a tiny bit of a octane booster but 50% water as well which causes great cooling in the engine and can clean intake valves while it's at it I've been told, but haven't researched enough into it.

Someone please feel free to correct any of this if it's wrong this is just how I understand it.

 

[Camus]

These cars use direct injection, therefore its very expensive to get bigger HPFP which feed the direct injection. Instead you would use auxiliary fuel through a feed rail which would use car injectors on top of the direct injection. This would use the LPFP, there are people using this method as well it's just more money. Plus meth is a tiny bit of a octane booster but 50% water as well which causes great cooling in the engine and can clean intake valves while it's at it I've been told, but haven't researched enough into it.

Someone please feel free to correct any of this if it's wrong this is just how I understand it.

I see, thanks for the explanation, and actually I found the upgraded HPFP:

https://dorchengineering.com/product/b58-stage-2-hpfp-upgrade/

Seems to be for B58, not sure if it would be a direct fit for our cars, I'll fire then an email to check. I would go with this pump just for having everything simple.

BTW I get the Meth part, but 50% water? I heard and read about this, but if for some reason the controller mess up, yo could end up hydro locking the engine right? A part on me also wants the Meth injection just for avoiding carbon build ups, a classic issue on direct injection engines, but the part of having a second controller (a controller besides the DME) makes me anxious.

 

[LS3Twins]

I see, thanks for the explanation, and actually I found the upgraded HPFP:

https://dorchengineering.com/product/b58-stage-2-hpfp-upgrade/

Seems to be for B58, not sure if it would be a direct fit for our cars, I'll fire then an email to check. I would go with this pump just for having everything simple.

BTW I get the Meth part, but 50% water? I heard and read about this, but if for some reason the controller mess up, yo could end up hydro locking the engine right? A part on me also wants the Meth injection just for avoiding carbon build ups, a classic issue on direct injection engines, but the part of having a second controller (a controller besides the DME) makes me anxious.

In a perfect world we would just upgrade the HPFP, LPFP and direct injectors but the product development is much longer on these because of the systems involved. I am working with a supplier on these and gave them a HPFP and direct injectors to start the process on getting an upgrade in the works. It will not be cheap by any means. The HPFP will probably be $3k+ retail.

The water that is being injected is a mist and a 50/50 blend of methanol/water. These systems are not ebay quality controllers either. These only come on board at a pre-determined point and have fail safes built into them.(The good ones do)

The meth systems are easy to setup and once the car is tuned for it you can increase the octane, lower IAT's, and add fueling. Is it a pain to fill up the reservoir...Yes. Without it though no one would be at the power levels they were at because no other products had been released and my car would have never made 680tq and 640whp when it did. Everyone is working to get supplemental fueling development moving forward right now and there will be a couple of options, some already have a plate for port injection/direct meth injection. I am going for the the full intake manifold with port injection and once the direct injector upgrade is done I will do some testing and post my results.

I also have some good news and an update on my build. I now have Mahle Forged Pistons for the 2020 Supra. I took some pics last night and will post one here. I can't wait to get these in with some rods and see what she puts down. The car is still at Full Race Motorsports and I should be flying back out to pick her up in the next 2 weeks or so and will drive her back from Phoenix to North Carolina.

 

[Supra Man]

In a perfect world we would just upgrade the HPFP, LPFP and direct injectors but the product development is much longer on these because of the systems involved. I am working with a supplier on these and gave them a HPFP and direct injectors to start the process on getting an upgrade in the works. It will not be cheap by any means. The HPFP will probably be $3k+ retail.

The water that is being injected is a mist and a 50/50 blend of methanol/water. These systems are not ebay quality controllers either. These only come on board at a pre-determined point and have fail safes built into them.(The good ones do)

The meth systems are easy to setup and once the car is tuned for it you can increase the octane, lower IAT's, and add fueling. Is it a pain to fill up the reservoir...Yes. Without it though no one would be at the power levels they were at because no other products had been released and my car would have never made 680tq and 640whp when it did. Everyone is working to get supplemental fueling development moving forward right now and there will be a couple of options, some already have a plate for port injection/direct meth injection. I am going for the the full intake manifold with port injection and once the direct injector upgrade is done I will do some testing and post my results.

I also have some good news and an update on my build. I now have Mahle Forged Pistons for the 2020 Supra. I took some pics last night and will post one here. I can't wait to get these in with some rods and see what she puts down. The car is still at Full Race Motorsports and I should be flying back out to pick her up in the next 2 weeks or so and will drive her back from Phoenix to North Carolina.

thats awesome! keep us all updated please!

question.. with all the power you are making, how is the transmission holding up? any slipping? any plans on upgrading the trans?

 

[Twisted Tuning]

The stock fuel injectors flow enough fuel for around 700-750whp by themselves without any upgrade. However to get there, you need to make sure the HPFP and LPFP can flow enough fuel to support them. The HPFP is the easiest part of the fuel system for companies to upgrade outside the LPFP. That's why you see so many HPFP upgrades. The stock fuel system on race fuel will flow enough for 600-650whp without issue. beyond that the HPFP begins to struggle. With ethanol mixes the choke point is less than that.

The transmission will remain fairly happy to 650-700tq with proper information sent to it and good oil and cool fluid. Eventually beyond that clutch packs and maybe cryo treating the input and output shafts would help hold more. I haven't seen many if any actually broken gears on ZF trannies over all the years i've been tuning them. Its almost always the input or output shaft sheering off. I don't expect it to be any different with the 8HP51 in the Supra.

 

[KONG]

What kind of power are you putting down on just 93? And 93 w/meth!

 

[Twisted Tuning]

What kind of power are you putting down on just 93? And 93 w/meth!

was that directed towards me or the OP?

 

[KONG]

was that directed towards me or the OP?

OP, Sorry for the confusion

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