2021 Supra Prices Revealed!

[Dannyvandelft]

Car would get aftermarket coilovers anyway, so stock suspension not so important. Main reason I want the better brakes is for pad swaps, as far as braking performance, I'm sure the lower-spec brakes with appropriate track pads and fluid will whoa the car as well as the bigger Brembos. So for me neither of those will really affect the performance of the car. For sure the 3.0 has a ton more power/weight, but just under 3200 lb. still appeals to me more. At 3400+, I'm just not that interested even if the price were the same $43k as the 2.0.

Not every enthusiast has the same priorities...

FWIW I drove and tracked a V8 FD RX-7 for several years. Did 185mph in the standing mile with it So it's not like outright speed doesn't appeal to me at all. But I found I was having just about as much fun at the track with the BRZ. After I didn't track the FD at all in 2018 I sold it. Sure I kinda miss hitting 160 on Andretti Straight at Mosport, but the BRZ is way more fun to drive on the street 99.5% of the time while still being a lot of fun at the track

I understand what you're saying, but I'm sure the weight difference between an LS engine and a 13b rotary is much bigger than the 2.0 and 3.0 BMW blocks. In the FD the LS would also completely upset the balance of the car, where the balance in the 3.0 Supra is near perfect. That's why the BRZ is more fun. Not because it's lighter, but because it's balanced. Throw that same V8 in the BRZ and it'll be the same as the FD.

200 lbs means it's 8% lighter, but it's 50% less powerful. A set of coilovers and some pads can't overcome that. Especially since the 3.0 already has upgraded suspension and brakes.

For example: you'd buy a 2.0 for $43k, decent coilovers under $2k don't exist, and good ones are $4k. So you're at $45-47k. Big Brake Kit, another $3-5k. Now you're at $48-52k for which you buy a 2020 3.0 which has similar braking and handling performance, but 50% less horsepower.

Doesn't make sense to me

I'd rather buy a 3.0 and start shedding weight. Take out the heavy seats, put in race buckets. Gut the trunk. Lightweight wheels. Probably 100 lbs right there.

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[ZDan]

I understand what you're saying, but I'm sure the weight difference between an LS engine and a 13b rotary is much bigger than the 2.0 and 3.0 BMW blocks. In the FD the LS would also completely upset the balance of the car, where the balance in the 3.0 Supra is near perfect.

LS is not a heavy powerplant. My V8 FD was a street car, with a/c, p/s, full interior, plus heavier-than-stock bigger wheels/tires and brakes and a ~65 lb. 4-point roll bar. Looking at my notes here it weighed 2949 lb. with 3/4 tank of fuel (15 gallons). Full tank would put it around 2980 lb, That's 140 lb. heavier than a stock FD, but subtract out the additional weight of roll bar, wheels/tires/brakes, and the ton of sound-deadening the P.O. put in it and the weight delta approaches nil. Weight distribution with 3/4-tank fuel and me in the car was 49.9F/50.1R, not far from stock distribution and better than the MkV. BTW 50/50 is not "perfect". For a high-performance rwd car you want some rear weight bias.

That's why the BRZ is more fun. Not because it's lighter, but because it's balanced. Throw that same V8 in the BRZ and it'll be the same as the FD.

V8 FD = 50/50, BRZ 55F/45R. Tell me again which is "balanced"...

200 lbs means it's 8% lighter, but it's 50% less powerful. A set of coilovers and some pads can't overcome that. Especially since the 3.0 already has upgraded suspension and brakes.

Of course the 3.0 would be way faster in terms of straight-line speed and lap times, no doubt about that at all.

For example: you'd buy a 2.0 for $43k, decent coilovers under $2k don't exist, and good ones are $4k. So you're at $45-47k. Big Brake Kit, another $3-5k. Now you're at $48-52k for which you buy a 2020 3.0 which has similar braking and handling performance, but 50% less horsepower.

Coilovers would happen either way, so no 3.0 vs. 2.0 price difference for me there.
Brakes, again with track pads and fluid, tires are the limiting factor, I wouldn't be spending $$$ on bbk.
The killer for me might be open diff on the 2.0. That'd be $3k for OSGiken or similar so now it's $46k + coilovers. And still on the heavy side....

 

[justbake]

Coilovers would happen either way, so no 3.0 vs. 2.0 price difference for me there.
Brakes, again with track pads and fluid, tires are the limiting factor, I wouldn't be spending $$$ on bbk.
The killer for me might be open diff on the 2.0. That'd be $3k for OSGiken or similar so now it's $46k + coilovers. And still on the heavy side....

At $46k youre pretty close to a 2020 3.0 in price, assuming unsold cars will take a minor hit when 2021s arrive. At that point, you will have a car that will outperform the 2.0 and will probably retain resale value better than a 2.0. If it were $39-$42k maybe, but $46k is just so close

 

[gdi2290]

well it sounds like the i4 will keep the used i6 market high so now what will the i4 used market looking like?

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

I have been a little hard on the 4 banger; mainly because Toyota dropped the ball on it big time. Give it a MT and the 300hp tune and Toyota would have probably sold much more than that 20% projection.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I have been a little hard on the 4 banger; mainly because Toyota dropped the ball on it big time. Give it a MT and the 300hp tune and Toyota would have probably sold much more than that 20% projection.

That's for the 2022 model

 

[gdi2290]

it should be way easier to tune the i4 for 300hp+ than the GR86

 

[SwagBaybee]

I have been a little hard on the 4 banger; mainly because Toyota dropped the ball on it big time. Give it a MT and the 300hp tune and Toyota would have probably sold much more than that 20% projection.

I think the 2.0 really has potential. Being over 200 lbs lighter all around with a smaller engine that sits further back behind the front axle kind of makes it a front-mid-engine car. It can definitely kill those corners like no others.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

That's for the 2022 model

I was thinking the same. That is if the 2.0 isn't cut from the line up before than.

I think the 2.0 really has potential. Being over 200 lbs lighter all around with a smaller engine that sits further back behind the front axle kind of makes it a front-mid-engine car. It can definitely kill those corners like no others.

Of course the potential is there. But as is, even one of our Mods who is a huge proponent of the 2.0 say as its current stands/price he would pass on it and just go straight to for the base 3.0

 

[ZDan]

Point taken from alla you guys. At $43k with limited slip and fixed-caliper Brembos I'd be interested in the 2.0, without those it'd need to be $40k or less. Here's to 2022 I guess

 

[Malinkadink]

I don't know if I should be happy or sad because even though Toyota is quoting a good price, these greedy dealers are going to mark the damn thing up even if it hurts their sales. It's not a numbers game for them when it comes to the supra. They don't care how many they sold. They care about how much they made on each sale. They are going to mark it up by $20k and then on negotiating would not go below $10k. I know that for sure. We will have to wait for 6-8 more months until they remove the markups.

No way, maybe some will try to get extra for the A91, but im sure you'll even find those at sticker at some dealers. The normal A90 21 will go for sticker or lower all damn day. There's really nothing special for the A91 that you couldn't add to an A90 yourself, the carbon bits can be all had aftermarket, the only thing is the blue color, but even that you can just get a wrap if you really cared for it. If i can get a blue A91 for MSRP sure i'd do it but im not going to fight for it. I'd rather have a nitro yellow.

 

[Guff]

You're not gonna notice the difference in the weight. If it all came off the nose, then maybe. But the weight comes from all over the car. All you're gonna notice is the lack of power, braking, and handling since the 3.0 has upgraded parts in every department. The only place the 2.0 makes sense is in your wallet.

The enthusiast would always go for the 3.0 in my opinion. That's like saying the enthusiast would go for a standard Cayman and not the GT4 because it has a bigger engine. Makes no sense.

Disagree! The weight difference is very noticeable between the two cars! I still haven't finished my review video so I'll explain all of that later, but the 2.0 does indeed present a different driving experience! Wether it's worth it or not is a different story though.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Disagree! The weight difference is very noticeable between the two cars! I still haven't finished my review video so I'll explain all of that later, but the 2.0 does indeed present a different driving experience! Wether it's worth it or not is a different story though.

I haven't driven the 2.0 (obviously) but a different feel could easily be the lesser suspension that comes on it.
If you fill up and put a 200 lbs driver in each, the weight difference between both cars is 5-6%. Now I'm sorry, but unless you're a professional racing driver, you're not going to notice that

Shittier shocks however, you will notice immediately. Throw in an open diff, and you have your different feel.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Disagree! The weight difference is very noticeable between the two cars! I still haven't finished my review video so I'll explain all of that later, but the 2.0 does indeed present a different driving experience! Wether it's worth it or not is a different story though.

I'm guessing that's a no?

 

[Guff]

I haven't driven the 2.0 (obviously) but a different feel could easily be the lesser suspension that comes on it.
If you fill up and put a 200 lbs driver in each, the weight difference between both cars is 5-6%. Now I'm sorry, but unless you're a professional racing driver, you're not going to notice that

Shittier shocks however, you will notice immediately. Throw in an open diff, and you have your different feel.

Just my 2 cents.

Disagree very, very strongly here haha. Let me explain. Almost any driver will notice a 220lb difference. It is extremely noticeable and changes almost every aspect of the cars movement. As soon as you move the steering wheel, you can notice an immediacy in input over the 3.0. At the limit the 2.0 has a much wider margin, far more forgiving than the 3.0 (on the same tire and width keep in mind) And the suspension in the 2.0 isn't 'lesser', it's just not active. It's still springs and dampers in a MacP and MultiLink setup. The suspension in the 2.0 is great and is very much akin to the 3.0 in Normal Damping.

The big flaws of the 2.0 are the open diff and standard gearing. The car makes more than enough torque to still be fun on the street, but the standard gearing becomes long due to the lack of legs compared to the 3.0. The car is much easier to rotate thanks to the weight, and is much more forgiving too, but the lack of LSD sours all of that since it doesn't put the power down. This car is stupidly easy to flick though, few occasions where it felt BRZ good, just got let down by the other stuff. Brakes are adequate for the street, pads and fluid definitely needed for track work, but the same can be said for the 3.0.

Having driven the cars back to back, I want a 2.0. I think it provides enough of a difference to make it a unique driving experience stock for stock. I prefer lighter, more handling-fun oriented cars. But it needs an LSD and a shorter final drive. The balance on it is sweeter than the 3.0, and to take 200lbs out of the 3.0 would be an expensive ordeal in the aftermarket.

So to make this relevant, I think an 8k difference between the cars would be fine but only if the 2.0 had an LSD and a 4.0 final drive. Power can be sorted post haste with a tune too. As it stands it's missing that little bit that it needs to be a real contender. A performance pack upgrade would be great but if that closes the price gap to 5k between the cars, then the value prop just isn't there.

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