2023 Toyota GR Supra Manual Review Thread!!!

[FuzzyRev]

Given the situation with manuals and dealer availability in the US, they could have made 100% of the 2023 production manual and we'd likely still be seeing limited availability here. There's a lot of pent-up demand and nowhere near enough supply to satisfy it.

ETA: given that Toyota pre-plans production numbers of everything, makes you wonder if the situation isn't actually that they had limited availability of some component for the automatics. That is to say, they didn't sell twice as many manuals as they planned to, they sold half as many automatics.

Regardless, I think we all agree that they could have sold more cars this year. The demand is strong.

ETAx2: further evidence of this theory, the A91-MT was supposed to be a 500 unit run in the US, and 47% of that 1216 overall '23 production number is 572.

I think you're hitting the nail on the head here. TMNA is having ZERO DIFFICULTY selling MY23 Supras, with either transmission option for that matter. Something in the MKV supply chain finally appears to have broken, and the ability to produce and/or ship these cars took a big hit.

The other issue, is that Toyota still can't deliver a fraction of the high-volume RAV4 and Highlander models the public is killing each other over, and when TMS looks over the data, they allocate more available resources to order fulfillment of the money makers, while niche vehicles get put on the back burner. It doesn't mean they don't care about us, just that when resources are stretched thin, the bread & butter product gets the most priority.

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[Captain_Kirk]

 

[Spart]

Learned a couple of things from this video.

 

[DEupra]

Learned a couple of things from this video.

Spare us the time, what did you learn?

 

[Spart]

Spare us the time, what did you learn?

Guy's a Toyota tech, the whole thing is interesting or I wouldn't have posted it.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/08/r...peed-gets-the-heart-racing-and-blood-pumping/

Review: 2023 Toyota GR Supra GTS Six-Speed Gets The Heart Racing And Blood Pumping

The 2023 Toyota Supra GTS is a joy to live with, especially with the new stick shift

I’ve never really agreed with those that feel let down by the A90-generation Toyota Supra. But I completely understand why some don’t like it and why it continues to ruffle feathers.

In the four years since its release, there remain plenty of enthusiasts who simply can’t get over the fact that it was developed alongside BMW and shares many parts with the Z4 and other BMW models. I know people that still say “Oh, nice BMW!” to A90 Supra owners but it’s important to remember that were it not for Toyota’s partnership with BMW, a new Supra likely never would have never been created. And, after all, BMW has a rich history of building incredible sports cars, so what’s the big deal?

› Model:	2023 Toyota GR Supra GTS
› Starting Price:	AU$106,015 (As Tested – AU$108,065)
› Powertrain:	3.0-liter turbocharged inline-six
› Output:	382 hp (285 kW) and 369 lb-ft (500 Nm) of torque
› Transmission:	6-speed manual
› On Sale:	Now

Of course, some will say that had Toyota developed the Supra by itself, it would have been better. Were Toyota’s Gazoo Racing division to make a new Supra in 2023, we suspect it could be better but sadly, that’s not the reality we’re living in as when the car was being developed, GR was still focused on motorsport, not road cars like it is now.


So that brings me to today. All of these thoughts were running through my mind as I picked up the keys to the most enthusiast-oriented version of the new-age Supra, the six-speed manual model. What I found before me was a front-engined, rear-wheel drive sports car with a powerful engine and a stick shift. That sounds like the perfect recipe for success. However, it took more than the first drive for me to fully appreciate just how good this thing is.

As you probably already know, the Supra is powered by BMW’s B58 3.0-liter turbocharged inline-six and while some markets also have the option of a 2.0-liter turbo-four, Australia only gets the 3.0-liter. This engine is superb and pumps out an impressive 285 kW (382 hp) and 369 lb-ft (500 Nm) of torque and for the first few years of the car’s production run, was exclusively paired to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission.

Then came along the six-speed manual. This is the car that many car enthusiasts had been waiting for and it is certainly the better of the two options. The gearbox takes the form of a modified ZF system that includes a new clutch and tweaked linkages. As we found out, it also adds a whole new thrill to driving the Supra.

Two versions of the Supra are sold in Australia. The entry-level model, priced from AU$96,101 ($61,514) including on-road costs, is dubbed the GT and is very well-equipped. In addition to coming with the choice between the eight-speed auto and the six-speed manual, it lands with 18-inch alloy wheels, adaptive suspension, seven airbags, an 8.8-inch digital instrument cluster, safety systems like Pre-Collision Safety with daytime pedestrian and cyclist detection, and 10-speaker audio system.

Our test car was the Supra GTS. It starts at AU$106,015 ($67,860) and adds 19-inch forged alloy wheels, a head-up display, and a 12-speaker JBL audio system. It can also be optioned with tan leather-accented seat trim or black Alcantara seat trim in addition to the black leather that is the sole option on the GT. The Matte White paint of our test car, as well as Nurburg Matte Grey, are offered exclusively on the GTS and add AU$2,050 ($1,312) to the sticker price.

Toyota’s nicest cabin

Stepping into the Supra for the first time I was quickly reminded of just how compact the cabin feels. You sink down into the excellent GR sports seats and get a good view of the road but with everything finished in black, it can feel a little claustrophobic and is certainly tighter than the interior of the new Nissan Z.

The gear shifter immediately caught my eye. It is small and looks a little dainty when compared to the shifters of the GR Yaris and GR Corolla but feels premium and is nicely weighted (more on that later). The rest of the cabin is familiar with the automatic Supra and plenty of BMW models too.

Sitting atop the dashboard is an 8.8-inch infotainment display with BMW’s iDrive software and those who hate touchscreens will be pleased to know it can also be operated with a controller on the transmission tunnel. It’s nice that the Supra retains physical buttons and knobs for the HVAC system and the inclusion of a wireless smartphone charger with a little cradle to keep your phone secured is also most welcome. The cabin is absolutely more premium than that of the new Nissan Z.

Fun, sporty, and poised

But, let’s be honest, you don’t really care about the interior of the Supra, do you? What you really want to know is how it drives, right? Well, we’re happy to report that the six-speed Supra is an absolute joy to drive and to live with.

I wasn’t so sure during my first 20 minutes with the car, however. After slotting the car into first gear and pulling away, I was surprised by how light the clutch is and how high the engagement point is, especially compared to the GR Corolla I drove just a few weeks prior. I was also taken aback by just how light and undramatic the shifting action is. Toyota says the Supra has a 200-gram gear knob but it doesn’t really feel like it. The shifting action is a far cry from that of the Nissan Z where you feel like you’re getting an arm workout every time you drive. It is also less notchy than the six-speeds used in other GR products.

In the GR Corolla, the engagement point feels like it is just a few millimeters off the floor, allowing you to slam it through the gears without a care in the world. The six-speed of the Supra requires a little more finesse and on more than one occasion I found myself inadvertently riding the clutch while making a change. Once I got used to the unique feel of the gearbox is when I really started to feel at home in the Supra.

The thrill of driving – in a Toyota

The 3.0-liter engine pulls strongly throughout the entire rev range and while it does not feel as muscular as the twin-turbo V6 of the Z, it makes for a very quick car and one that can hit 100 km/h (62 mph) in around 4.2 seconds.

The Supra really begins to pull away from the Z from a dynamic standpoint. While the Z is newer, there’s no doubt that the Toyota has it beat in the handling stakes. Equipped with a sticky set of Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires, our GTS test car offered superb levels of grip and a particularly responsive front end. It feels light on its feet through corners and while it is quite powerful, the rear-end isn’t particularly frisky like it is in the Z.

It feels like an altogether better-sorted and more premium option to the Nissan for those seeking an out-and-out sports car. It’s not a bad daily driver either. The automatic rev-matching system works very well as do the strong brakes.

Our test car was lacking a little in the sound department. When we first tested the Supra at the start of 2020, the exhaust cracked and popped feverously when it was in Sport mode. Not the case here. In fact, the best we got was some burbles, a fry cry from the gunshot shots we were expecting. According to the internet, 2020MY Supra models sounded the most manic of them all, and the six-speed simply isn’t as loud as the auto. Shame.

We were pleasantly surprised with the fuel efficiency of the Supra. Toyota’s official claim is that it consumes 8.9l/100 km (26 U.S. MPG) over the combined cycle and while we did not average that given we did quite a lot of sporty driving, the Supra will happily sit at 8.0l/100 km (29.4 mpg) at highway speeds.

All told, the 2023 Toyota GR Supra GTS with the six-speed is a brilliant sports car. While we think it could have been even better if its transmission was more similar to that of the GR Corolla, it remains infinitely more enjoyable to use than the eight-speed automatic.

 

[Tacoma714]

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/08/r...peed-gets-the-heart-racing-and-blood-pumping/

 

[Zoomie]

@FuzzyRev85 The supply chain for the A90 is through Magna Steyr in Austria whereas the Rav4 and Highlander are built in North American plants (and even those are different locations). Supply issues for microchips might affect all three, but production and shipping for all three models should be almost entirely independent.

 

[5AMPWR]

Just got my manual - have driven it roughly 50km and had to leave it home for the weekend
- Initial thoughts though - it’s not a fast car, it’s a fun car - and that’s exactly why I like it - there’s a fun factor I can’t really explain.

The 6 speed has just enough throw, a good solid feeling when driving. Another thing I don’t know how to put in words is… the manual in this thing just makes sense.

 

[Zoomie]

Congrats on getting your MT! I'm within a couple weeks of my ETA so I'm obsessively checking forums to keep myself busy.

Interesting that you say the Supra is a fun car but not a fast car.

In my world there are quick cars and there are fast cars. Quickness comes from acceleration in the first couple gears, immediate throttle response, and how light and nimble the car feels. My RSX feels quick even though it's low on power - it feels light and nimble. Most quick cars would be 2.0 or 2.5L engines (in my world). Cars like the Miata/MX5, S2000, BRZ, etc.

Fast cars have tons of power but they're often big and heavy. In a fast car you don't feel the speed and suddenly realize you're going way faster than you thought. Fast cars have lots of torque in higher gears and are meant more for drag strips and the autobahn than for Autocross. There are lots of fast cars that are NOT quick - at least to my way of thinking. A GTR, a Corvette, or a Hellcat are fast in my world. I think by my standard the MK4 was more 'fast' than 'quick'.

My definition won't suit everyone, but I've heard the GR86 is an exceptionally well balanced 'quick' car. The Supra handles a little worse and the gearbox can't match the GR Corolla, but the Supra is surprisingly fast.

It sounds like you consider it quick but not fast?

 

[5AMPWR]

@Zoomie - I might need some more seat time to see how fast it really is haha
Just initial drive reaction - wow this thing is like playing with hot wheels haha - super happy with it is all I’m saying and I think anyone waiting will be happy they did.

 

[KahnBB6]

Congrats on getting your MT! I'm within a couple weeks of my ETA so I'm obsessively checking forums to keep myself busy.

Interesting that you say the Supra is a fun car but not a fast car.

In my world there are quick cars and there are fast cars. Quickness comes from acceleration in the first couple gears, immediate throttle response, and how light and nimble the car feels. My RSX feels quick even though it's low on power - it feels light and nimble. Most quick cars would be 2.0 or 2.5L engines (in my world). Cars like the Miata/MX5, S2000, BRZ, etc.

Fast cars have tons of power but they're often big and heavy. In a fast car you don't feel the speed and suddenly realize you're going way faster than you thought. Fast cars have lots of torque in higher gears and are meant more for drag strips and the autobahn than for Autocross. There are lots of fast cars that are NOT quick - at least to my way of thinking. A GTR, a Corvette, or a Hellcat are fast in my world. I think by my standard the MK4 was more 'fast' than 'quick'.

My definition won't suit everyone, but I've heard the GR86 is an exceptionally well balanced 'quick' car. The Supra handles a little worse and the gearbox can't match the GR Corolla, but the Supra is surprisingly fast.

It sounds like you consider it quick but not fast?

I own a 2023 GR86 Premium 6-speed manual and I can attest that it is plenty quick for its 2850lbs curb weight and handles VERY well. It's great fun driving it fast or slow. And of course it only has about 245hp at the crank (average stock dyno runs give or take around that number at the crank even though it's officially rated at 228hp at the crank).

A Supra MKV will blow its doors off handily in A/T or M/T. My 3600lb 2JZGTE Lexus SC (also manual but 5-speed) will blow its doors off handily (but not as fast as the Supra MKV will).

I could care less though as it's such a great and fun little car! It's even practical as a daily driver. Just check the oil level often to top off as needed and ditch the 0W-20 oil in favor of 5W-30.

I can't speak to how the Supra MKV handles in comparison or to how the GR Corolla shifter feels compared to the GR86 shifter.... but I will say that the GR86 shifter is very good by my measure. I'm considering the purchase of a BilletWorks short shifter for it but it's already got pretty good throws as stock and I have no complaints about it getting into each gear smoothly and without issue. It's a joy to use the TL70 transmission (which is derived from the Aisin AZ6 6-speed previously used in the S2000, RX8 and Altezza RS200).

The GR86 shifter and transmission are smooth and affirmative to operate (but not like the bolt action rifle feel an S2000 transmission has).

My SC's manual shifter (which is a vintage short shifter on a top-loader transmission) has more of a 90's muscle car feel to its action. It requires more deliberate shifting although it's not heavy to operate at all. The twin disc clutch is one of the lighter ones available (OS Giken) but it's got a steeper adjustment curve than the very easy and light GR86 clutch.

Where the SC feels like a fast, midsize and heavier muscle/GT car the GR86 feels like a dialed in lightweight, definitely small and more precise machine with far tighter handling. The GR86 doesn't feel fast but it certainly does feel quick and not at all wanting for well more than enough power and torque to get out of its own way. It's just not the powerhouse that the Supra MKV or any 2JZ turbo car is nor was it intended to be.

That lack of big power doesn't get in the way of it being enormously satisfying and fun to drive in any situation. It would be difficult to imagine it being quite as fun with the automatic transmission option though.

Both cars are a contrast of different expressions of enthusiast vehicle fun behind the wheel. Both achieve that differently and very well in their own ways.

 

[visbits]

I own a 2023 GR86 Premium 6-speed manual and I can attest that it is plenty quick for its 2850lbs curb weight and handles VERY well. It's great fun driving it fast or slow. And of course it only has about 245hp at the crank (average stock dyno runs give or take around that number at the crank even though it's officially rated at 228hp at the crank).

Your perspective is jaded... the GR86 is a dog regardless of how "fun" it is. The Supra is the "minimum" power level any fun car should have...

 

[Spart]

Your perspective is jaded... the GR86 is a dog regardless of how "fun" it is. The Supra is the "minimum" power level any fun car should have...

The 86 twins would be a blast with 300HP or so.

It's annoying because I feel like they missed the second golden age of horsepower (2010-2020 or so.)

The stars aligned with emissions regulations and tech for big power numbers on almost everything, and what does Subaru (Toyota) do? Wheezing NA "sports" car.

Now that's all going away and the opportunity is lost.

Don't get me wrong, the wheezing NA engine could have been the base model. They needed a top-end trim with forced induction of some kind.

 

[Supra_UK_]

- Initial thoughts though - it’s not a fast car, it’s a fun car -

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