Audio upgrade options

[JasonO]

Yes, that's what they told me when I enquired about their system...I was hoping they would keep the OE subs and treat them as woofers and also use their standalone sub...But they told me they disable the 2 OE subs in their setup....

They want to sell the sub as that is likely where a lot of their money is, so the factory system has to go. They would have too many nulls and peaks to cancel out and blending would be a mess with all three.

I was hoping they would turn the 8” they provide into the sub bass channel at 50 Hz and below while using the factory 8”s for 50-125-150 That would allow the door mids to start playing at 175-200 Hz or so after crossover boost.

The issue I have with all these systems, factory or oemaudioplus is they are heavily DSPd, so aftermarket speakers can be a waste or guesswork without trade offs in losing factory integration or incredibly expensive harnesses that almost no installers know how to use or even aware of. Often times the head unit needs to be reprogrammed as well so the output is correct.

If oemaudioplus would sell me the amp, harness, and access to the DSP, I’d be happy as a pig in shit. That would make me consider replacing speakers as I could keep full factory integration while applying corrected processing for any new speakers or for how my aftermarket subs are set up.

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[tadda]

They want to sell the sub as that is likely where a lot of their money is, so the factory system has to go. They would have too many nulls and peaks to cancel out and blending would be a mess with all three.

I was hoping they would turn the 8” they provide into the sub bass channel at 50 Hz and below while using the factory 8”s for 50-125-150 That would allow the door mids to start playing at 175-200 Hz or so after crossover boost.

The issue I have with all these systems, factory or oemaudioplus is they are heavily DSPd, so aftermarket speakers can be a waste or guesswork without trade offs in losing factory integration or incredibly expensive harnesses that almost no installers know how to use or even aware of. Often times the head unit needs to be reprogrammed as well so the output is correct.

If oemaudioplus would sell me the amp, harness, and access to the DSP, I’d be happy as a pig in shit. That would make me consider replacing speakers as I could keep full factory integration while applying corrected processing for any new speakers or for how my aftermarket subs are set up.

Well said...exactly my sentiments as well!

 

[30MilesOffshore]

@JasonO and @tadda, I agree with both of you on this one! As Louis Armstrong said: "What we play is life." So I need my system to give that to me!

 

[MaherSupra]

Actually the Harmon Kardon Speakers in the Supra are fairly decent...

With some proper equalization the highs and mids are fine....It's the low bass response along with rattling and vibration that I found to be the main problems...

I was able to make some significant improvements to the OE Subwoofer system and eliminate the vibrations and rattling...As a result bass response is noticeably lower and punchier and vibrational noise is gone...I can now listen to the sound system at 3/4 volume and the bass seriously kicks ass...

Here is a thread below I posted about a week ago outlining the details....project cost was roughly $30...

How to Improve OE Subwoofer Quality and Eliminate Vibrations

I’m sorry but I actually saw the very low cost speakers there no way around it. You have to replace them and install a good amplifier for a decent sound. Otherwise it’s just low tier sound system in an expensive car. Makes no sense.

 

[MaherSupra]

I have Harman Kardon in my Mercedes.
And that sounds waaaaaaaay better then the sound system in the Supra (difference is day/night).

When turning up the volume, this is where it even gets worse for the Supra (rattling sounds)
But ok, the Mercedes costed me twice the price of my Supra

They went sham on the sound insulation in the car that’s why it rattles like a ducking bite. After sound deadening the entire interior during the sound system build. It really did cut down the rattles and noise a lot! So if you can just sound deadening your Supra it would make a hell of a difference.

 

[tadda]

I’m sorry but I actually saw the very low cost speakers there no way around it. You have to replace them and install a good amplifier for a decent sound. Otherwise it’s just low tier sound system in an expensive car. Makes no sense.

Agree to disagree here...

Yeah, I saw the speakers as well and the harmon kardons are actually fairly decent speakers....But I do agree that a amplifier upgrade would further improve the sound system quality...

Adding sound insulation in key locations (particularly the Subs) also greatly helps improve overall sound quaility as I've found during the upgrades I made to mine...

If you take your Supra to an audio shop of course they're going to tell you the OE speakers are crap and upsell $3,000~$4,000 worth of equipment...It's not my first rodeo upgrading sound systems....

 

[MaherSupra]

Agree to disagree here...

Yeah, I saw the speakers as well and the harmon kardons are actually fairly decent speakers....But I do agree that a amplifier upgrade would improve the sound system...

Adding sound insulation in key locations also greatly helps improve overall sound quaility as I've found during the upgrades I made to mine...

If you take your Supra to an audio shop of course they're going to tell you the OE speakers are crap and upsell $4000 worth of equipment...

I’m an audiophile so I’m not new to the sound system. My headphones alone are $600 and I was very conservative in picking them up. I know what a good sound is, I have a separate DAC and amplifier to go along the headphones I use, and that’s just when I’m out of town. There are essential steps to ensure a beautiful sound quality one of them is getting a decent quality speakers, amplifier, and a DSP to go along with it. I was happy and still happy to invest in my car sound and not be driving bananas by how bad it is yet I am spending a lot of time in my car. This is an expensive car and it’s a shame they did this to it.

 

[tadda]

I’m an audiophile so I’m not new to the sound system. My headphones alone are $600 and I was very conservative in picking them up. I know what a good sound is, I have a separate DAC and amplifier to go along the headphones I use, and that’s just when I’m out of town. There are essential steps to ensure a beautiful sound quality one of them is getting a decent quality speakers, amplifier, and a DSP to go along with it. I was happy and still happy to invest in my car sound and not be driving bananas by how bad it is yet I am spending a lot of time in my car. This is an expensive car and it’s a shame they did this to it.

I'm a self proclaimed audiophile and engineer myself having been at this for over 35 years...But if you know what your doing and are fairly handy you can upgrade the system for far less yourself...I actually enjoy the process of finding ways in which to improve the current setup...With the improvements I've been able to make the system sounds really good now and it's still a work in progress...next will be an amp upgrade for sure...

That said, glad your pleased with your results...would love to hear if I was closer!

 

[MaherSupra]

I'm a self proclaimed audiophile and engineer myself having been at this for over 35 years...But if you know what your doing and are fairly handy you can upgrade the system for far less yourself...I actually enjoy the process of finding ways in which to improve the current setup...With the improvements I've been able to make the system sounds really good now...

That said, glad your pleased with your results...would love to hear if I was closer!

Yea definitely! I’m going back to Arlington later this year! I wish I have the tools and space otherwise I would work on it myself, but still I’m not an audio tech at all I’m not an engineer lol. I follow Car Audio Fabrication and he have plenty of car sound System builds. He knows his stuff.

 

[89 and 95]

My audio guy with 30+ years experience said the oem speakers are not bad, but I had already brought in the BAV upgrade for him to check out. He ended up installing it all and thought it made a decent improvement, esp after cleaning up the woofer rattle issue.

For a bigger improvement, he would add a quality amp and properly tune the system with DSP. I am not a bass thumper guy, so the BAV woofers would still be adequate in this scenario. For bigger bass folks, he said a proper woofer setup would be required.

 

[JasonO]

I’m sorry but I actually saw the very low cost speakers there no way around it. You have to replace them and install a good amplifier for a decent sound. Otherwise it’s just low tier sound system in an expensive car. Makes no sense.

I have high end equipment in my house. I can hear the same details in the Supra as long as I’m not moving. That points more to resonance at volume, speaker breakup at volume, lack of insulation against road noise and resonance, and lack of high frequency absorption materials in the car. All of these can be addressed fairly well without ripping the entire system out and/or losing integration.

In researching what I wanted to do, I came across where an actual speaker designer of some fairly well acclaimed speakers has this system in his BMW. The only things he did was add a 2nd order low pass and third order high pass to the front L&R speakers, add proper dampening/baffling material, and I believe he disabled the center and rears as well. The factory speakers once the above was done measured well.

If an objective and respected audio design engineer says these can measure (not just sound) good with proper work, I’m inclined to believe him. Hell, some of the better shops I went to said to leave the speakers alone unless I wanted to pay for marginal gains. I know what I don’t know, so I lean on those who have no skin in the game who do know.

I don’t want 110-120db continuous, so the strategies he took will be what I take for the rest of my build. If it doesn’t work, I would have needed to do those things either way, so no loss was incurred.

Edit: reversed high and low pass

 

[30MilesOffshore]

The only things he did was add a 2nd order low pass and third order high pass to the front L&R speakers, add proper dampening/baffling material, and I believe he disabled the center and rears as well.

This is exactly the route I'm planning on going, I've already found dampening, baffling, & low pass filter. I want to see what I can get from the things you mentioned above. I not set on gutting the current system yet, I still believe in it. "You Can Do It!"

BTW, does anyone know the resistance of the front and rear speakers? Not the subs. I didn't check them when I had the car apart.

 

[tadda]

BTW, does anyone know the resistance of the front and rear speakers? Not the subs. I didn't check them when I had the car apart.

I've seen specs for the same BMW / HK tweeter and midrange both listed as 4 ohm impedance...Interesting that the BAVsound direct replacement midrange is spec'd @ 4 ohm but their tweeter is 6 ohm...

 

[JasonO]

This is exactly the route I'm planning on going, I've already found dampening, baffling, & low pass filter. I want to see what I can get from the things you mentioned above. I not set on gutting the current system yet, I still believe in it. "You Can Do It!"

BTW, does anyone know the resistance of the front and rear speakers? Not the subs. I didn't check them when I had the car apart.

As per what Tadda said, factory HK drivers are 4 ohm.

I've seen specs for the same BMW / HK tweeter and midrange both listed as 4 ohm impedance...Interesting that the BAVsound direct replacement midrange is spec'd @ 4 ohm but their tweeter is 6 ohm...

Bavsound is probably using a 6 ohm as tweeters typically have higher efficiencies. If the HK tweeter isn’t efficient as the Bavsound design, specing a higher resistance coil would drop it where it needs to be.

If you look at aftermarket component crossovers, they often have a +2 or 3 dB setting. What it is actually is the crossover for that speaker tamps the tweeter down and if you want it brighter, that switch removes the circuit causing the tamping of signal to hit the reference +/- 3 dB across the component set they are targeting.

 

[MaherSupra]

My audio guy with 30+ years experience said the oem speakers are not bad, but I had already brought in the BAV upgrade for him to check out. He ended up installing it all and thought it made a decent improvement, esp after cleaning up the woofer rattle issue.

For a bigger improvement, he would add a quality amp and properly tune the system with DSP. I am not a bass thumper guy, so the BAV woofers would still be adequate in this scenario. For bigger bass folks, he said a proper woofer setup would be required.

That’s incredible! Most of you guys justifying Toyota shitty sound system choices and price cutting. Anyway I was driving this afternoon and I loved my true HiFi setup with help from Tidal Master sounds playlist. By the way, it’s the best sound quality you can have! Its a night and a day from anything else especially Sirius XM.

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