Audio upgrade options

[tadda]

I’m sorry but I actually saw the very low cost speakers there no way around it. You have to replace them and install a good amplifier for a decent sound. Otherwise it’s just low tier sound system in an expensive car. Makes no sense.

Agree to disagree here...

Yeah, I saw the speakers as well and the harmon kardons are actually fairly decent speakers....But I do agree that a amplifier upgrade would further improve the sound system quality...

Adding sound insulation in key locations (particularly the Subs) also greatly helps improve overall sound quaility as I've found during the upgrades I made to mine...

If you take your Supra to an audio shop of course they're going to tell you the OE speakers are crap and upsell $3,000~$4,000 worth of equipment...It's not my first rodeo upgrading sound systems....

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[MaherSupra]

Agree to disagree here...

Yeah, I saw the speakers as well and the harmon kardons are actually fairly decent speakers....But I do agree that a amplifier upgrade would improve the sound system...

Adding sound insulation in key locations also greatly helps improve overall sound quaility as I've found during the upgrades I made to mine...

If you take your Supra to an audio shop of course they're going to tell you the OE speakers are crap and upsell $4000 worth of equipment...

I’m an audiophile so I’m not new to the sound system. My headphones alone are $600 and I was very conservative in picking them up. I know what a good sound is, I have a separate DAC and amplifier to go along the headphones I use, and that’s just when I’m out of town. There are essential steps to ensure a beautiful sound quality one of them is getting a decent quality speakers, amplifier, and a DSP to go along with it. I was happy and still happy to invest in my car sound and not be driving bananas by how bad it is yet I am spending a lot of time in my car. This is an expensive car and it’s a shame they did this to it.

 

[tadda]

I’m an audiophile so I’m not new to the sound system. My headphones alone are $600 and I was very conservative in picking them up. I know what a good sound is, I have a separate DAC and amplifier to go along the headphones I use, and that’s just when I’m out of town. There are essential steps to ensure a beautiful sound quality one of them is getting a decent quality speakers, amplifier, and a DSP to go along with it. I was happy and still happy to invest in my car sound and not be driving bananas by how bad it is yet I am spending a lot of time in my car. This is an expensive car and it’s a shame they did this to it.

I'm a self proclaimed audiophile and engineer myself having been at this for over 35 years...But if you know what your doing and are fairly handy you can upgrade the system for far less yourself...I actually enjoy the process of finding ways in which to improve the current setup...With the improvements I've been able to make the system sounds really good now and it's still a work in progress...next will be an amp upgrade for sure...

That said, glad your pleased with your results...would love to hear if I was closer!

 

[MaherSupra]

I'm a self proclaimed audiophile and engineer myself having been at this for over 35 years...But if you know what your doing and are fairly handy you can upgrade the system for far less yourself...I actually enjoy the process of finding ways in which to improve the current setup...With the improvements I've been able to make the system sounds really good now...

That said, glad your pleased with your results...would love to hear if I was closer!

Yea definitely! I’m going back to Arlington later this year! I wish I have the tools and space otherwise I would work on it myself, but still I’m not an audio tech at all I’m not an engineer lol. I follow Car Audio Fabrication and he have plenty of car sound System builds. He knows his stuff.

 

[JasonO]

I’m sorry but I actually saw the very low cost speakers there no way around it. You have to replace them and install a good amplifier for a decent sound. Otherwise it’s just low tier sound system in an expensive car. Makes no sense.

I have high end equipment in my house. I can hear the same details in the Supra as long as I’m not moving. That points more to resonance at volume, speaker breakup at volume, lack of insulation against road noise and resonance, and lack of high frequency absorption materials in the car. All of these can be addressed fairly well without ripping the entire system out and/or losing integration.

In researching what I wanted to do, I came across where an actual speaker designer of some fairly well acclaimed speakers has this system in his BMW. The only things he did was add a 2nd order low pass and third order high pass to the front L&R speakers, add proper dampening/baffling material, and I believe he disabled the center and rears as well. The factory speakers once the above was done measured well.

If an objective and respected audio design engineer says these can measure (not just sound) good with proper work, I’m inclined to believe him. Hell, some of the better shops I went to said to leave the speakers alone unless I wanted to pay for marginal gains. I know what I don’t know, so I lean on those who have no skin in the game who do know.

I don’t want 110-120db continuous, so the strategies he took will be what I take for the rest of my build. If it doesn’t work, I would have needed to do those things either way, so no loss was incurred.

Edit: reversed high and low pass

 

[30MilesOffshore]

The only things he did was add a 2nd order low pass and third order high pass to the front L&R speakers, add proper dampening/baffling material, and I believe he disabled the center and rears as well.

This is exactly the route I'm planning on going, I've already found dampening, baffling, & low pass filter. I want to see what I can get from the things you mentioned above. I not set on gutting the current system yet, I still believe in it. "You Can Do It!"

BTW, does anyone know the resistance of the front and rear speakers? Not the subs. I didn't check them when I had the car apart.

 

[tadda]

BTW, does anyone know the resistance of the front and rear speakers? Not the subs. I didn't check them when I had the car apart.

I've seen specs for the same BMW / HK tweeter and midrange both listed as 4 ohm impedance...Interesting that the BAVsound direct replacement midrange is spec'd @ 4 ohm but their tweeter is 6 ohm...

 

[JasonO]

This is exactly the route I'm planning on going, I've already found dampening, baffling, & low pass filter. I want to see what I can get from the things you mentioned above. I not set on gutting the current system yet, I still believe in it. "You Can Do It!"

BTW, does anyone know the resistance of the front and rear speakers? Not the subs. I didn't check them when I had the car apart.

As per what Tadda said, factory HK drivers are 4 ohm.

I've seen specs for the same BMW / HK tweeter and midrange both listed as 4 ohm impedance...Interesting that the BAVsound direct replacement midrange is spec'd @ 4 ohm but their tweeter is 6 ohm...

Bavsound is probably using a 6 ohm as tweeters typically have higher efficiencies. If the HK tweeter isn’t efficient as the Bavsound design, specing a higher resistance coil would drop it where it needs to be.

If you look at aftermarket component crossovers, they often have a +2 or 3 dB setting. What it is actually is the crossover for that speaker tamps the tweeter down and if you want it brighter, that switch removes the circuit causing the tamping of signal to hit the reference +/- 3 dB across the component set they are targeting.

 

[MaherSupra]

My audio guy with 30+ years experience said the oem speakers are not bad, but I had already brought in the BAV upgrade for him to check out. He ended up installing it all and thought it made a decent improvement, esp after cleaning up the woofer rattle issue.

For a bigger improvement, he would add a quality amp and properly tune the system with DSP. I am not a bass thumper guy, so the BAV woofers would still be adequate in this scenario. For bigger bass folks, he said a proper woofer setup would be required.

That’s incredible! Most of you guys justifying Toyota shitty sound system choices and price cutting. Anyway I was driving this afternoon and I loved my true HiFi setup with help from Tidal Master sounds playlist. By the way, it’s the best sound quality you can have! Its a night and a day from anything else especially Sirius XM.

 

[MaherSupra]

I have high end equipment in my house. I can hear the same details in the Supra as long as I’m not moving. That points more to resonance at volume, speaker breakup at volume, lack of insulation against road noise and resonance, and lack of high frequency absorption materials in the car. All of these can be addressed fairly well without ripping the entire system out and/or losing integration.

In researching what I wanted to do, I came across where an actual speaker designer of some fairly well acclaimed speakers has this system in his BMW. The only things he did was add a 2nd order low pass and third order high pass to the front L&R speakers, add proper dampening/baffling material, and I believe he disabled the center and rears as well. The factory speakers once the above was done measured well.

If an objective and respected audio design engineer says these can measure (not just sound) good with proper work, I’m inclined to believe him. Hell, some of the better shops I went to said to leave the speakers alone unless I wanted to pay for marginal gains. I know what I don’t know, so I lean on those who have no skin in the game who do know.

I don’t want 110-120db continuous, so the strategies he took will be what I take for the rest of my build. If it doesn’t work, I would have needed to do those things either way, so no loss was incurred.

Edit: reversed high and low pass

Haha I love how you say as long as I’m not moving!!! Gut it out and sound deadening it with Roadkill or any other good quality sound deadening it will significantly reduce road noises. I spend more time in my car by choice because I love driving! It’s a choice so it better sound and ride beautifully. From all the cars I owned I don’t mind spending more money on it it’s a great car.

 

[tadda]

In researching what I wanted to do, I came across where an actual speaker designer of some fairly well acclaimed speakers has this system in his BMW. The only things he did was add a 2nd order low pass and third order high pass to the front L&R speakers, add proper dampening/baffling material, and I believe he disabled the center and rears as well. The factory speakers once the above was done measured well.

If an objective and respected audio design engineer says these can measure (not just sound) good with proper work, I’m inclined to believe him. Hell, some of the better shops I went to said to leave the speakers alone unless I wanted to pay for marginal gains. I know what I don’t know, so I lean on those who have no skin in the game who do know.

Interesting...I share his and your sentiments...

Do you recall the frequencies he selected for the low and high pass filters ?

 

[JasonO]

Do you recall the frequencies he selected for the low and high pass filters?

Tadda, see this post.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1448277&page=2
Math checks to roughly 3500 Hz.

That’s incredible! Most of you guys justifying Toyota shitty sound system choices and price cutting. Anyway I was driving this afternoon and I loved my true HiFi setup with help from Tidal Master sounds playlist. By the way, it’s the best sound quality you can have! Its a night and a day from anything else especially Sirius XM.

It is the same system as in HK package BMWs. The only difference is since this is a sports car, they skimped on the NVH. I’m adding NVH. Can better systems be bought? Yes. Can the existing system be improved cheaply enough to make the difference marginal? It appears likely.

Go back and read this whole thread. I’ve been a huge critic of this system. I have just taken a different approach than you have, and in the process, come to some different conclusions.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html?m=1

Haha I love how you say as long as I’m not moving!!! Gut it out and sound deadening it with Roadkill or any other good quality sound deadening it will significantly reduce road noises. I spend more time in my car by choice because I love driving! It’s a choice so it better sound and ride beautifully. From all the cars I owned I don’t mind spending more money on it it’s a great car.

I’m happy you can read, I’m sad that you can’t comprehend. You literally had CLD and possibly some other stuff added as part of your install yet you fail to connect the dots.

 

[tadda]

Tadda, see this post.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1448277&page=2
Math checks to roughly 3500 Hz.

Thanks Jason

 

[JasonO]

Thanks Jason

Take a look at this thread on the F30.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329316

It isn’t apples to apples, but a lot of what is going on processing wise with that HK system applies to the Supra from a philosophy standpoint. Given that you seem to be the most gung-ho at staying closer to stock, I figured it would help you.

- Subsonic filter on sub-woofer output
- Low pass on subwoofers around 100Hz but due to the boosted HK house curve, it is likely outputting meaningful mid bass at 200Hz
- the 4” are high passed at somewhere around 150Hz as best I can tell from electrical spectrum.
- DSP makes this have some guesswork
- the tweeters have a 6db high pass at 4.7 microF (8khz?). So the mid bass has a giant sweep to cover due to the low slope crossover on the tweeter.
- Variable DSP loudness contours over the volume range.
- I’m guessing the EQ settings recommended will not be applicable to us.

 

[MaherSupra]

Take a look at this thread on the F30.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329316

It isn’t apples to apples, but a lot of what is going on processing wise with that HK system applies to the Supra from a philosophy standpoint. Given that you seem to be the most gung-ho at staying closer to stock, I figured it would help you.

- Subsonic filter on sub-woofer output
- Low pass on subwoofers around 100Hz but due to the boosted HK house curve, it is likely outputting meaningful mid bass at 200Hz
- the 4” are high passed at somewhere around 150Hz as best I can tell from electrical spectrum.
- DSP makes this have some guesswork
- the tweeters have a 6db high pass at 4.7 microF (8khz?). So the mid bass has a giant sweep to cover due to the low slope crossover on the tweeter.
- Variable DSP loudness contours over the volume range.
- I’m guessing the EQ settings recommended will not be applicable to us.

I totally understand lol! Speaking of DSP and crossovers the shops used this amplifier by JL Audio
VX1000/5i
5 Ch. Class D System Amplifier with Integrated DSP, 1000 W. It was installed behind the passenger seat.

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