C&D: Supra vs Z vs M240 vs Mach 1

pandaman

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This was their way of appeasing the "Anti-Zupra" crowd. They couldn't admit that it was in fact the best car of these 4. Sometimes I think they shouldn't have called it a Supra at all. It looks more like the original 2000GT than a Supra anyways. You could look at this article as a big win for the Supra. A lot of rags would have done everything they could to put it in 4th.
Prediction: These reviewers will be doing the "It's starting to grow on me" routine a few years down the road.

Checkout this C&D review of the MKIV from their archive: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15142755/toyota-supra-turbo-instrumented-test/

Not exactly a glowing review.
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RenRed2

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Interesting article. The M240 is fast and comfortable. Just had a nice drive from home to Switzerland and to Turin/Rivoli to drive a Lotus Evora we want to buy. The article is very wrong about the M240 comfort. There is not much to push you around on the Autobahn lol. Its just a bit thirsty when enjoying the power it has. From Autobahn to city to small fun and amazing mountain roads - The M240 or Supra have not much competition - AT ALL LOL :)

Pictures of the M240
Nice Alpine Curve in Switzerland
Nice pictures of Vevey and Lake Geneva

The Evora we drove!
Lake Geneva by Vevey Jul 2022.jpg
Swiss Alps July 2022.jpg
Evening Vevey Jul 2022.jpg
Evora 400 Rivoli.jpg


Ciao :)

M240 Switzerland July 1.jpg
Swiss Curve July.jpg
 

gixxersixxerman

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I'm actually a big CD fan and been a subscriber for, ahem, a very long time. However, they irritate me to know end with their absolute refusal to account for cars that come with what I feel are cheater tires like the Mustang. The "we test them like they build them" crap is just the dumbest ass thing ever. We're talking about tires here not the effing engine and transmission. By this logic, those sticky Cup 2s should be staying on the 40,000 mile test cars right through the Michigan winter. That's how they built it after all. Let's put the same tires on each car and see what happens. You know, like those of us out in the real world might.
The problem i have with this though is cars are designed and developed around a certain tire. You put regular PS4's on the Mach 1 with the handling pack on it, the magnaride and chassis tuning isnt designed for it, really cutting its balls. Same as when you add ultra sticky tires to some cars and it improves but not any where close to what you think it would because the suspension and chassis cant put that extra grip to it. to me you have to test the cars the way they come from the factory. if the factory wants better numbers, then design it with better rubber and chassis and suspension that can use it. like the Mustang PP2/ Mach 1 Handling pack. Camaro 1LE and such.

I do believe the Z will be quicker on better rubber but would be more surprised if it picked up a lot more time since it seems the chassis isnt a ton better than before.
 

trev_rs

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Not exactly a glowing review.
If we don't go all electric, you might be right on your first comment. This article is comical as well. It blows the doors off everything we stacked against it, but it's not a "pure sports car".
 

suicidaleggroll

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Yeah those "Vehicle" scores are wacky. Exterior styling is subjective, giving one car that a lot of people like the looks of a 9 and another car that just as many people like the looks of a 5 is an odd choice. I get that some people might not like the styling of the Supra, but a 5? C'mon. I have never received as many compliments on my car in a year as I have in the Supra in any given week.

Also what is going on with features/amenities? A 4 for the Supra and a 10 for the M240? They have the same infotainment system, same wheel/controls, and basically the same interior, how do they justify such a discrepancy? It feels like they filled out all of the other sections first, then took the rankings they wanted and set the "Vehicle" scores accordingly.
 

type-964

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Yeah those "Vehicle" scores are wacky. Exterior styling is subjective, giving one car that a lot of people like the looks of a 9 and another car that just as many people like the looks of a 5 is an odd choice. I get that some people might not like the styling of the Supra, but a 5? C'mon. I have never received as many compliments on my car in a year as I have in the Supra in any given week.
Yeah, itā€™s bananas how much positive attention the Supra gets. Iā€™ve only heard praise, and get compliments about half the time I drive it (the car, not meā€¦lol).
 

gixxersixxerman

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Yeah, itā€™s bananas how much positive attention the Supra gets. Iā€™ve only heard praise, and get compliments about half the time I drive it (the car, not meā€¦lol).
Exactly my experience also. In fact the only ones really talk any shit are the ones with the most clapped out garbage. Ive had people in GTR's, Mclaren's, and lambo's wave me down to say nice car. Even people in vehicles that are not even close to the same genre, like lifted Trucks and Jeeps wave or say sick car. Then the dude in the beat ass 90's civic missing fender, running a spare tire, no exhaust talk shit lolol. Its always amusing to me.
 

jchadwell

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You put regular PS4's on the Mach 1 with the handling pack on it, the magnaride and chassis tuning isnt designed for it, really cutting its balls.
You are making my point here. The PS4 will cut the Mustang's balls as you describe it because it is a significantly less aggressive tire compared to the Cup 2. It's as simple as that. Ask anyone who tracks/autocrosses/drags their car what they recommend when someone asks "what mods do I need to make my car faster?" and pretty much every single one will say first is seat time (AKA driver mod) and second is tires. Those are by far the two biggest things that impact a car's performance.
 

gixxersixxerman

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You are making my point here. The PS4 will cut the Mustang's balls as you describe it because it is a significantly less aggressive tire compared to the Cup 2. It's as simple as that. Ask anyone who tracks/autocrosses/drags their car what they recommend when someone asks "what mods do I need to make my car faster?" and pretty much every single one will say first is seat time (AKA driver mod) and second is tires. Those are by far the two biggest things that impact a car's performance.
But then you are testing a "modified" vehicle not from the factory, thats what enthusiasts do. the "rags" all have to test bone stock from the factory cars. If they started changing up tires to make it more even, where does it stop? The mustang has more power then the Z, and cost more, so lets change the tires, and since it would fit in the same cost as a Mach 1 lets throw in a tune, then the HP is closer?

Motorcycle rags do this, they test sportbikes on the same rubber and some do much worse on the sticky race rubber due to the suspension not having the valving, damping and spring rates to keep up. it was faster on the tire it was designed for. But to "make it fair" you cut the balls off the engineers and the bike got horrible reviews, but hey it needs to be fair. Fair is it comes from the factory with what they give it, thats how its tested. Not long term tested, but put in a comparo it needs to be factory stock. Afterwards, YT page or something will throw on suspension and tires and then do a comparison and someone will complain about that. and so on and so on.
 

Tsar

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Supra won that comparison. I lolā€™d at mustangsā€™ 9 in styling. Iā€™d give pagani zonda a 9 or 10 but not a mustang. Thereā€™s nothing spectacular in mustangs styling/appearance - itā€™s a 5, 6 at best to me. 9. Lol.
 

jchadwell

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But then you are testing a "modified" vehicle not from the factory, thats what enthusiasts do. the "rags" all have to test bone stock from the factory cars. If they started changing up tires to make it more even, where does it stop? The mustang has more power then the Z, and cost more, so lets change the tires, and since it would fit in the same cost as a Mach 1 lets throw in a tune, then the HP is closer?

Motorcycle rags do this, they test sportbikes on the same rubber and some do much worse on the sticky race rubber due to the suspension not having the valving, damping and spring rates to keep up. it was faster on the tire it was designed for. But to "make it fair" you cut the balls off the engineers and the bike got horrible reviews, but hey it needs to be fair. Fair is it comes from the factory with what they give it, thats how its tested. Not long term tested, but put in a comparo it needs to be factory stock. Afterwards, YT page or something will throw on suspension and tires and then do a comparison and someone will complain about that. and so on and so on.
I guess we'll need to agree to disagree. :cool: For the record - I'm significantly more impressed with the Supra's 1.06 or 1.07 Gs on Pilot SS than I am the Cayman GT4s 1.08 on Cup 2s.
 

Schang105

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I understand what C&D did and while I may not agree, I get it. Would like to see a comparo between the 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 and the Supra 3.0. Different price and engine placement but same wheelbase and both 6 cylinder RWD.
 

Rocksandblues

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I understand what C&D did and while I may not agree, I get it. Would like to see a comparo between the 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 and the Supra 3.0. Different price and engine placement but same wheelbase and both 6 cylinder RWD.
Gts would win with c&d
 

White Shadow

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The Mach 1, only car enthusiast knows it's something special. to just about anyone else it looks like a mustang with wider wheels.
Can't really agree with that. I think the Mach 1 looks different enough that even the casual observer would know it's sometning special. I mean, I don't think it's quite as special as a GT350 or GT500, but it's not exactly a garden variety 5.0 GT either. There's a lot visually to make it stand out. And mechanically, the Tremec manual transmission is probably the biggest thing it has going for it (yes, I realize that's something that nobody will see and most non-Mustang people will car about) over any regular GT Mustang.
 

Mark5

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Shocked to see the 240 faster to 130 given the heft, height and shape!
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