Can someone review these jb4 map 5 logs for me

[Hchikar]

I’m running e30 with a catless downpipe and mst v2 cold air intake on map 5. I started out on map 2 with 93 pump gas and everything felt smooth. Everything still feels smooth it’s just I feel like in the logs the timing is doing some weird stuff it’s kinda all over the place. I put some WOT pulls and logs of me cruising down below. Thanks!

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[Phantomx]

It would be easier if you can load these up in datazap.me it’s free and you can upload there and then paste the link here so we can replay the run and click through the values and see what is happening with different parameters and such.

1 thing I can see right away on the 2nd chart is your trims are maxed out and your AFR is in the 15’s and at that boost level that is not where you want to be, avg ign is a better one to look at as it averages out the timing values across all the cylinders but it‘s pulling timing because it can’t add anymore fuel and it’s started to lean out potentially dangerously you want AFR’s in the 12’s not the 15’s.

You can also see a lot of throttle closures that could be traction control from spinning or it trying to correct itself, with each closure a dip in timing as well.

I was exactly (2 weeks ago) where you were right now, similar mods, map 5 no tune. Since then I went MHD with Backend Flash and it’s a major difference and a hell of a lot safer.

Here is a log with JB4 and MHD backend flash (custom map 6 on 24psi and e40) look closely at AFR, Trims, Timing, etc for comparison.

https://datazap.me/u/phantomx2k/mhd-bef-jb4-e40?log=1&data=1-4

Go back to MAP 4 and run a log and maybe even MAP 3 and do the same. 3rd gear 2500/3k and floor it. If those trims don’t come down some drop to map 3 and see how that and your AFR looks then. Without a tune it won’t drop much below 14 but that is better than what appears to be 15‘ish in the graph.

 

[Hchikar]

It would be easier if you can load these up in datazap.me it’s free and you can upload there and then paste the link here so we can replay the run and click through the values and see what is happening with different parameters and such.

1 thing I can see right away on the 2nd chart is your trims are maxed out and your AFR is in the 15’s and at that boost level that is not where you want to be, avg ign is a better one to look at as it averages out the timing values across all the cylinders but it‘s pulling timing because it can’t add anymore fuel and it’s started to lean out potentially dangerously you want AFR’s in the 12’s not the 15’s.

You can also see a lot of throttle closures that could be traction control from spinning or it trying to correct itself, with each closure a dip in timing as well.

I was exactly (2 weeks ago) where you were right now, similar mods, map 5 no tune. Since then I went MHD with Backend Flash and it’s a major difference and a hell of a lot safer.

Here is a log with JB4 and MHD backend flash (custom map 6 on 24psi and e40) look closely at AFR, Trims, Timing, etc for comparison.

https://datazap.me/u/phantomx2k/mhd-bef-jb4-e40?log=1&data=1-4

Go back to MAP 4 and run a log and maybe even MAP 3 and do the same. 3rd gear 2500/3k and floor it. If those trims don’t come down some drop to map 3 and see how that and your AFR looks then. Without a tune it won’t drop much below 14 but that is better than what appears to be 15‘ish in the graph.

I’ll try map 4 tmr morning and post another log in this thread, hopefully it’ll look a little better. I’m also planning on getting a custom tune by Jesse so hopefully that’ll help.

 

[Phantomx]

Jesse is awesome and he can dial it in better with the JB4 especially without a tune and a Femto unlock ain’t cheap but Jesse can get it pretty sorted out so it runs good and is safe.

 

[Hchikar]

Jesse is awesome and he can dial it in better with the JB4 especially without a tune and a Femto unlock ain’t cheap but Jesse can get it pretty sorted out so it runs good and is safe.

Worse comes to worst I’ll just finish through this tank and go back on 93 and run map 2 until I can get the custom tune from Jesse. Hopefully it won’t do any serious damage

 

[Phantomx]

E30 is fine just have to turn the boost down a little bit my guess is map 3 will settle it, map 4 will be pushing it and I wouldn’t recommend 5 at this time.

I’ll let @Jesse DaBears and @ColonelAdama chime in as they are the real guru’s on this i’m still learning from them but a basic fundamental, no matter what and especially with boost is lean is not good that’s when you can get detonation and on a boosted app that makes things melt down go boom Hence it pulling a bunch of timing to avoid that. The DME safeties and the JB4 safeties are helping to keep that from happening but it’s not optimal. Keep the E30 and just turn it down a little for now.

 

[Hchikar]

E30 is fine just have to turn the boost down a little bit my guess is map 3 will settle it, map 4 will be pushing it and I wouldn’t recommend 5 at this time.

I’ll let @Jesse DaBears and @ColonelAdama chime in as they are the real guru’s on this i’m still learning from them but a basic fundamental, no matter what and especially with boost is lean is not good that’s when you can get detonation and on a boosted app that makes things melt down go boom Hence it pulling a bunch of timing to avoid that. The DME safeties and the JB4 safeties are helping to keep that from happening but it’s not optimal. Keep the E30 and just turn it down a little for now.

Sounds good, I’ll go to map 3 run some logs and see if it gets the AFR’s, timing and trim a little better. I’ve only been running this map for a day and plan on getting the custom tune next week so hopefully if I’m real liberal on the car it won’t be too bad, fingers crossed lol

 

[ColonelAdama]

Sounds good, I’ll go to map 3 run some logs and see if it gets the AFR’s, timing and trim a little better. I’ve only been running this map for a day and plan on getting the custom tune next week so hopefully if I’m real liberal on the car it won’t be too bad, fingers crossed lol

Hey guys, I would suggest Map4 over Map 3. Map 3 and supras don't play particularly nice. I'm not really a fan of additive maps in general either. (I figured out how to get them to play nice ? )Map 3 is actually about equivalent to Map 5 in boost, sometimes more.

 

[Phantomx]

The man hath spoken… that makes sense thinking it through since the 2022 has more boost from factory then the 2020. Map 3 worked good on mine but it’s overall probably 4psi less too.

 

[ColonelAdama]

The man hath spoken… that makes sense thinking it through since the 2022 has more boost from factory then the 2020. Map 3 worked good on mine but it’s overall probably 4psi less too.

Yeah it's mostly just because the B58 can request crazy high boost targets if your JB4 isn't tuned quite right for you car. ie. You have a catless DP, haven't wastegate tuned for it, and run Map 3. Boom, you just put 24+ psi into your engine at 4k. Lol. I just trust absolute maps so much more.

 

[i3igpete]

avg ign is a better one to look at as it averages out the timing values across all the cylinders

avg_ign dataset (dark red) is nowhere near the others.

to be clear, i am aware that avg_ign is used differently depending on the platform. i am aware that on the n55, this is a normalized value between 0 and 6 (note my screenshot is in the teens, therefore this definition is impossible). however on something like the kia stinger, this is a dummy intermediate calculation that has nothing to do with ignition timing.

 

[ColonelAdama]

avg_ign dataset (dark red) is nowhere near the others.

to be clear, i am aware that avg_ign is used differently depending on the platform. i am aware that on the n54, this is a normalized value between 0 and 6 (note my screenshot is in the teens). however on something like the kia stinger, this is a dummy intermediate calculation that has nothing to do with ignition timing.

Yeah I've never used avg_ign. Even if it is meaningful, you can only see timing separation when you graph ign1-6.

 

[Phantomx]

I guess the way I look at it just gives me overall timing since I have no control over changing the fueling or airflow to each cyL to adjust for the inconsistencies in casting, intercooler, plug wear, etc which can all have an effect on individual timing I can’t change it cyl by cyl anyway so i just look at the averages. It’s good to diagnose any issues with a particular cyl if it’s way out of whack of course. Just me being old school and used to timing cars with a light and points and a distributor LOL.

Can you post the link to that chart? There are no trim values or afr on there if you click the file name at data zap it puts the link up for you to copy.

 

[Phantomx]

Yeah it's mostly just because the B58 can request crazy high boost targets if your JB4 isn't tuned quite right for you car. ie. You have a catless DP, haven't wastegate tuned for it, and run Map 3. Boom, you just put 24+ psi into your engine at 4k. Lol. I just trust absolute maps so much more.

I would give the JB4 a little more credit then that with the safeties built in and the DME safeties its’ gonna catch a lot of stuff. I set my boost safety at 22psi and ran all the additive maps. I ran it for over a year and it never did anything like that at all and I have logs on logs on logs and never saw anything like that. If it behaves with an absolute map (max target) and it knows how to ramp the boost up it knows how to do it on the additive maps as well.

As a testament to the car’s safeties when my backend flash was screwed up and it did exactly that tried to Shove 35psi of boost at 4k the DME cut it off and it only saw a max of 21psi, still a lot of that could have been an “end of life” event had it not.

Everyone has to do what they feel is right and good for them though so no disrespect I just have a bunch of time and experience with all those maps over the last year and say 6 months with the car With different mods and fueling. The little box performed really well and after 12,000 miles so far anyway the engine is still together ?

 

[i3igpete]

I guess the way I look at it just gives me overall timing

I think you need to look at the graph more closely. avg_ign is NOT anywhere near the individual cylinder timings. In one gear, I have great timing in all cylinders, and avg_ign is at 10. In another gear, I have timing pull and avg_ign does not reflect that.

Beyond that, to call it out explicitly, the N55 JB4 bible states " Avg Ign: Average Ignition Retard. A JB4 calculated value with a range of 0 - 6...". As you can see here, the Avg_ign line is NEVER within the range of 0 and 6 during this pull. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the avg_ign is average ignition timing, NOR is it the internally scaled retard variable.

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