Clutch Masters failed me

[Mayday]

I just installed the 1000 series twin disc clutch kit that comes with aluminum flywheel and the hydraulic release bearing that comes with shims. HRB has no installation instructions on how many shims you need to put, but thanks to CES motorsport, they sent me the instructions of the HRB installation and how many shims I need to put, and I just followed their instructions 100%. After installation completed, I finished clutch break in which it shows on clutchmasters website 500 miles driving around city and it’s done. After i finished break in the clutch, I drove the car from Qatar to Bahrain and that’s what happened while crossing Saudi Arabia - Bahrain border. The clutch pedal died suddenly and all the fluid in the reservoir gone and I noticed a leaking inside the car by the driver side where clutch pedal is located exactly.

* Bahrain border infront of me and behind me was the saudi arabia border, so yeah the clutch failed between the two borders *

I called a breakdown to tow the car and send it to Bahrain, so I can just park my car in Bahrain for one day to arrange “another breakdown” to take my car back to my country Qatar.

this is the next day, the car is going back to Qatar.

I received my car in Qatar and i sent it to the garage and I’m pretty sure from what i have read from other people experiences, that the HRB has failed. And yes the garage checked the car and told me the HRB was completely jammed that’s why your clutch master cylinder exploded.

* FYI, I drove the car with the clutch installed for only 600 miles *

the clutch & the flywheel seems fine, nothing happened to them.

I ordered the clutch kit, HRB and the surface lock all from A90 shop.

BTW, I received a wrong surface lock part# that is not even for the MK5

unlucky for me, these are the losses so far:

breakdown from the border to Bahrain:
$80

breakdown from Bahrain to Qatar:
$708

Bahrain circuit - Track Day:
$270

Clutch master cylinder:
$227 >> i ordered it from Germany because they don’t sell it here in Qatar.

Car floor:
i will see about it later when the car finishes

Labour work:
$686

The question is, what are my chances to get a refund for the whole clutch kit, HRB and surface lock?
as the clutch & flywheel isn’t damaged, are there any chances they refund me if I asked?

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[AJRMKV]

There is a chance. I had back to back bearing failures with them after similar mileage

 

[Mayday]

There is a chance. I had back to back bearing failures with them after similar mileage

for the clutch & flywheel as well?
because the clutch & flywheel haven’t damaged.

I already sent an email to A90shop and I’m waiting for their reply.

 

[lucky phil]

There is a chance. I had back to back bearing failures with them after similar mileage

It's possible this sort of failure is what you get when the thrust bearing doesn't have any clearance to the pressure plate fingers when the clutch is fully engaged. if it's just a lack of clearance the bearing will fail because it's being driven(spinning) all the time clutch is engaged or disengaged. If it's also loaded to a significant degree then the pressure plate and the friction plates may also get damaged.
Phil

 

[AJRMKV]

It's possible this sort of failure is what you get when the thrust bearing doesn't have any clearance to the pressure plate fingers when the clutch is fully engaged. if it's just a lack of clearance the bearing will fail because it's being driven(spinning) all the time clutch is engaged or disengaged. If it's also loaded to a significant degree then the pressure plate and the friction plates may also get damaged.
Phil

Good to know, I’m not sure what the issue is but instructions were followed on both my installs that were done by a mechanic who’s been installing cm products for 20 years.

In any case the product isn’t working, I’m in touch with 4 other owners who had the same failure. CM already warrantied my case .

 

[Mayday]

Good to know, I’m not sure what the issue is but instructions were followed on both my installs that were done by a mechanic who’s been installing cm products for 20 years.

In any case the product isn’t working, I’m in touch with 4 other owners who had the same failure. CM already warrantied my case .

same here, instructions were followed and nothing was wrong with installation. More than 6 owners had the same issue and some of them had the same exact scenario as mine.

 

[Mayday]

It's possible this sort of failure is what you get when the thrust bearing doesn't have any clearance to the pressure plate fingers when the clutch is fully engaged. if it's just a lack of clearance the bearing will fail because it's being driven(spinning) all the time clutch is engaged or disengaged. If it's also loaded to a significant degree then the pressure plate and the friction plates may also get damaged.
Phil

I’ve contacted CES Motorsport regarding HRB installation instructions and how many shims needed for the HRB and I just followed their instructions.

 

[lucky phil]

I’ve contacted CES Motorsport regarding HRB installation instructions and how many shims needed for the HRB and I just followed their instructions.

Sure but sometimes the install instructions are wrong because aftermarket components are not tested comprehensively. If you think aftermarket manufacturers always do due diligence and exhaustive testing on specific instillations then you'd be mistakes. They often extrapolate experience from one instillation to another and miss details that matter. Not saying I'm 100% correct but often the early customers share the R&D burden on aftermarket stuff.
Phil

 

[swrdply400mrelay]

Good to know, I’m not sure what the issue is but instructions were followed on both my installs that were done by a mechanic who’s been installing cm products for 20 years.

In any case the product isn’t working, I’m in touch with 4 other owners who had the same failure. CM already warrantied my case .

CM replaced all parts or refunded? If they replaced parts what happens if it fails again?

 

[Mayday]

Sure but sometimes the install instructions are wrong because aftermarket components are not tested comprehensively. If you think aftermarket manufacturers always do due diligence and exhaustive testing on specific instillations then you'd be mistakes. They often extrapolate experience from one instillation to another and miss details that matter. Not saying I'm 100% correct but often the early customers share the R&D burden on aftermarket stuff.
Phil

yes sure you’re right but as you see, CM hasn’t mentioned installing instructions for the HRB. So the solution would probably from a garage that has been testing CM clutches on MT Supras which is CES Motorsport and don’t forget they have been testing CM fx1000 series since it was a prototype.

 

[Mayday]

CM replaced all parts or refunded? If they replaced parts what happens if it fails again?

there’s no point of replacing parts like clutch masters HRB, cause it will fail again

 

[swrdply400mrelay]

there’s no point of replacing parts like clutch masters HRB, cause it will fail again

Right so that’s why I asked.

 

[DGINR8supra]

That’s the concern with my current CM setup with the hrb, it’s failed once and I had to wait on CM for replacements which they did send to me. I had to pay for install/labor that was pricey but am worried it could fail again. When and if it fails I’m wondering if I should do a new clutch like PTB or use the stock fork setup, something for me to think about.

 

[lucky phil]

That’s the concern with my current CM setup with the hrb, it’s failed once and I had to wait on CM for replacements which they did send to me. I had to pay for install/labor that was pricey but am worried it could fail again. When and if it fails I’m wondering if I should do a new clutch like PTB or use the stock fork setup, something for me to think about.

Nothing wrong with the stock fork set up which has been used for a hundred years or more. I suspect the current HRB design is more to do with economies of build than any mechanical advantage. IE less parts density and machining operations and assembly line simplification equals cheaper construction costs not necessarily a better clutch package. Add to that any hydraulic seal failure is a major issue and the hydraulic slave cylinder and fluid is much closer to any heat from the clutch and I fail to see any significant advantage and a few disadvantages. The only real issue with a fork actuation set up is a few pivot point wear areas but they have never really been a big issue in years gone by.

 

[AJRMKV]

CM replaced all parts or refunded? If they replaced parts what happens if it fails again?

They send you a repair kit lol.

CM replaced all parts or refunded? If they replaced parts what happens if it fails again?

The first time they replaced the HRB, the second time they sent a repair kit and told me I need to repair it when it fails.

Which i'm not willing to accept. At this point i'm in contact with other owners of this kit, everyone I know who bought the HRB had an early failure. Everyone. 100% failure rate.

I think we'll have to do something collectively.

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