Have a look at the Prototype Supra's engine

[Matador]

I mean, let's be logical here and look at the facts so far right (again, based on visual evidence of the Goodwood car):

- Built in Europe in the same factory as the X3 and pre-planned new Z4 (well before the Supra collaboration was a thought).

Wait what?

Lol! That's not something to brag about...since Lotus's chassis development in the 80's was about as advanced as a plastic straws. It wasn't until the Espirit's and later that people really started outsourcing their useful chassis and suspension engineering (RX-7, GT-R, etc...).

WAIT WHAT?!?

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[A70TTR]

There probably used the same technologie than the bmw serie 7 for reduce the weight. Alu + some reinforcement in composite fiber.
http://www.egmcartech.com/2015/04/2...n-aluminum-chassis-for-the-next-gen-7-series/

 

[zedsix]

I am a complete novice on the BMW B58 engine, tuning it, performance upgrades etc. Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58 I hope we get the top trim with modifications made by Toyota to possible allow easy tuning.

I read some of the comments on the engine over at bimmerpost, seems like a lot of happy people there: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1341576

Seems like a lot of them use the factory ECU and do some basic flash upgrades to achieve 500-600hp. Looks like there's not much of a market for people using standalones (eg. Haltec, Motec etc).

 

[justbake]

I really hope you're right, however were about 6 months away from this car being released. Judging by the image and the time frame left I would honestly say that we might be looking at a very close production level interior for the MKV, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was the production interior with a few tweaks.

Lets just wait and see at release if Toyota delivers something that doesn't utilize the BMW bin parts. It would be a shame if they did IMO. I get that their is a collab between Toyota and BMW but I don't want to see every piece of this car using BMW parts (eg. engine bay, interior, drive-train).

Even though the interior is close to being finalized, theres nothing the screams BMW aside from the iDrive controller and shifter while also being distinct from the Z4's interior. Also these cars have been traveling a lot and with the small interior parts being on the back burner to performance, who knows what has been changed on the official interior but not yet installed in these particular mules.

Once we remove the coverings, I may be wrong but until I think its fair to reserve judgment.

I am a complete novice on the BMW B58 engine, tuning it, performance upgrades etc. Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58 I hope we get the top trim with modifications made by Toyota to possible allow easy tuning.

I read some of the comments on the engine over at bimmerpost, seems like a lot of happy people there: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1341576

B58 is way better than the n55 and the nightmare of the n54. It should only get better with Toyota's extensive testing

 

[zedsix]

What do people generally do with the B58 engine to get big HP? is there a performance market out there for that sort of stuff and do people use standalone ECU's or are they just kind of locked to the encoded BMW map supplied and do BPU based upgrades?

I literally can't find anyone that uses standalone ECUs on the B58.

 

[mrarm]

What do people generally do with the B58 engine to get big HP? is there a performance market out there for that sort of stuff and do people use standalone ECU's or are they just kind of locked to the encoded BMW map supplied and do BPU based upgrades?

I literally can't find anyone that uses standalone ECUs on the B58.

Sage 1 only ecu modify for b58 340i bmw

Stage 2 see picture for additional parts

 

[SS900]

Even though the interior is close to being finalized, theres nothing the screams BMW aside from the iDrive controller and shifter while also being distinct from the Z4's interior. Also these cars have been traveling a lot and with the small interior parts being on the back burner to performance, who knows what has been changed on the official interior but not yet installed in these particular mules.

Once we remove the coverings, I may be wrong but until I think its fair to reserve judgment.



B58 is way better than the n55 and the nightmare of the n54. It should only get better with Toyota's extensive testing

Every single thing you can see in the interior is from BMW. Take a closer look.

 

[AZSupra]

What do people generally do with the B58 engine to get big HP? is there a performance market out there for that sort of stuff and do people use standalone ECU's or are they just kind of locked to the encoded BMW map supplied and do BPU based upgrades?

I literally can't find anyone that uses standalone ECUs on the B58.

You must come from the old school. The new generation ECU's are incredibly complex computers. Nobody is doing stand alone's and port flashing is nearly impossible. The JB4 from Burger Motorsports has taken over BMW tuning almost entirely. That is a piggyback device that allows canbus access. What people like about them, is warranty retaining. As soon as BMW, VW, Audi, etc see ANY performance modification you will be "flagged", which makes it nearly impossible to have any warranty servicing done (ask me how I know)

With that being said Germans leave a lot of power on the table with their turbo cars. That's why I have said previously, this will easily be a 400-450 whp car with a simple stage 1 flash. FBO and E85 should be looking at 500 HP.

Check on the RS platform from Audi. The 5 pot is ruthless when tuned. This car is shaping up to be very interesting. The japanese lost their passion for this sort of stuff, I doubt we will ever see the 90s again. That being said, the LFA is an absolute masterpiece of engineering, and I am excited to see what the Supra (a properly executed FRS) can do.

 

[justbake]

Every single thing you can see in the interior is from BMW. Take a closer look.

I mentioned that. all 3 things shown in the entire interior is bmw but who knows if thats the final configuration or how the interior will feel once everything is uncovered. I am not saying it won't use BMW components, just that I believe the interior in its entirety will not feel BMW. We can pinpoint specific shapes of the interior all day but each element, in its own right, isnt anymore BMW than it is Toyota/Lexus in design. For example, that screen may clearly be a BMW screen but the design element is not anymore specific to a BMW Z4 than it is to a Lexus RX or even a Mazda 3

 

[mrarm]

You must come from the old school. The new generation ECU's are incredibly complex computers. Nobody is doing stand alone's and port flashing is nearly impossible. The JB4 from Burger Motorsports has taken over BMW tuning almost entirely. That is a piggyback device that allows canbus access. What people like about them, is warranty retaining. As soon as BMW, VW, Audi, etc see ANY performance modification you will be "flagged", which makes it nearly impossible to have any warranty servicing done (ask me how I know)

With that being said Germans leave a lot of power on the table with their turbo cars. That's why I have said previously, this will easily be a 400-450 whp car with a simple stage 1 flash. FBO and E85 should be looking at 500 HP.

Check on the RS platform from Audi. The 5 pot is ruthless when tuned. This car is shaping up to be very interesting. The japanese lost their passion for this sort of stuff, I doubt we will ever see the 90s again. That being said, the LFA is an absolute masterpiece of engineering, and I am excited to see what the Supra (a properly executed FRS) can do.

You can make Chip-tuning the ecu of bmw engine see my previous post. But isn’t easy for sure and the warranty are removed if bmw show this mod.
Only one solution when you go to the concession bmw reinstall the original software...

 

[justbake]

A lot of people assume, like the 86/BRZ the difference is minimal and just a styling difference divide these cars from ours to the BMW. I will say it now. Officially. That is not the case.

The whole thing wasn’t based even on the goal to achieve a less expensive development or subcontracting of any sorts. This was a collaboration that drives at broadening of possibilities, when two different minds and systems, and culture and history, that will enhance a car, and eventually, prowess and forte for both companies. Not just in exterior panels, but even in the interior too. There isn’t much that be seen as shared-components in how the car feels. Down to even shift knobs, they are different. Of course, major components are shared, such as engine and carriages, but even the tuning of the engine and transmission are different too.

Here is a great read for those who have a spare couple minutes at work
http://club4ag.com/chief-engineer-t...gh-a-viewpoint-of-joint-development-with-bmw/

 

[PerformanceSound]

Here is a great read for those who have a spare couple minutes at work
http://club4ag.com/chief-engineer-t...gh-a-viewpoint-of-joint-development-with-bmw/

A few key things I took away from this article....thank you for this by the way:

"We would take every bit down to a fastener or rivet, and put it through our stringent quality control and a dozen other testing, we'd ship thousands of parts back to Japan for analysis. That is normal to us. Each piece we test at our level, they were now the ones surprised."

"When we compare the previous collaboration with Subaru, this time it was much more of a challenge. The cultural barrier of German engineers, proud of their engineering, and our pride of what we do best collectively as teams from each firm was something astonishingly different."

"He (Akio Toyoda) also added, “I need a Nurburgring-worthy car in our lineup”

"Not just in exterior panels, but even in the interior too. There isn’t much that be seen as shared-components in how the car feels. Down to even shift knobs, they are different. Of course, major components are shared, such as engine and carriages, but even the tuning of the engine and transmission are different too."

 

[lemetier]

What leads you to believe they did not?

I mean, let's be logical here and look at the facts so far right (again, based on visual evidence of the Goodwood car):

- BMW Engine, down to the throttle body and wiring.
- BMW brake calipers.
- BMW differential.
- BMW interior.
- BMW front & rear suspension.
- Built in Europe in the same factory as the X3 and pre-planned new Z4 (well before the Supra collaboration was a thought).

I am sure I'm forgetting or missing alot more BMW related stuff.

Now, one begs the question....what part(s) of this car are actually Toyota?..or what did BMW buy or take from Toyota in this "collaboration"? If anyone says "BMW got Toyota's hybrid system" then I hate to say it, but Toyota got shafted on the deal. I thought this car was a joint collaboration in that the two companies come up with one "foundational" platform (aka chassis), and each builds out their own drive-train, suspension, interior, etc... That is surely not the case, and we all clearly see this....so why is everyone fooling themselves? Why can't everyone just handle the truth, that the MKV Supra is a car Toyota is building out of a Z4 project that is clearly evident in almost every aspect of the MKV Supra. I would consider this car a Toyota if it had a Toyota drive-train, Toyota interior, Toyota brakes, etc... Curious how many parts on the new Z4 will say "Denso" or "Toyota" on them in this "joint effort."

BMW sourced engine? Yes
Brake Calipers? Brembo
Differential? ZF or GKN depending on equipment
Interior? Grupo Antolin, Ficosa, Lear, Sparco, TRW, just to name a few.
Suspension? Bilstein, ThyssenKrupp, and ZF
Factory? Yes contract assembly by Magna-Steyr, they haven’t built an X3 in 2 generations, most recent BMW is the 5er, and they also build the AM Rapide, Jaguar iPace, MB G Class plus more.

 

[BlackJet]

What do people generally do with the B58 engine to get big HP? is there a performance market out there for that sort of stuff and do people use standalone ECU's or are they just kind of locked to the encoded BMW map supplied and do BPU based upgrades?

I literally can't find anyone that uses standalone ECUs on the B58.

High hp B58 builds are currently breaking 600whp.

613 whp / 618 wtq

https://www.bimmerboost.com/showthr...M240i-dynos-613-rwhp-with-Stage-III-turbo-kit

 

[justbake]

BMW sourced engine? Yes
Brake Calipers? Brembo
Differential? ZF or GKN depending on equipment
Interior? Grupo Antolin, Ficosa, Lear, Sparco, TRW, just to name a few.
Suspension? Bilstein, ThyssenKrupp, and ZF
Factory? Yes contract assembly by Magna-Steyr, they haven’t built an X3 in 2 generations, most recent BMW is the 5er, and they also build the AM Rapide, Jaguar iPace, MB G Class plus more.

Not to mention the rear end that Toyota developed for these cars

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