Pure600 Turbo Tuning Support? Best software/hardware for 93 tune stock fuel system

[ChrisRay]

Hey can't seem to find my answer, even though i have searched for hours on this topic. I'm switching to the baby turbo upgrade, The Pure 600. I went this route because I want to lower my IATs and stay on a stock tune for the moment without sacrificing spool up time and extending my high RPM power band. And hopes to not void my warranty. But I have reconsidered that last part. I was thinking about doing something simple like a JB4 or just going to MHD or BM3. If we do MHD or BM3 I would like to limit my torque down low, to keep the pull more linear and keep my clutch life good for now. I also don't want to blow off my tires right away in a corner on my mountain road race track. I have tuned all of my high-hp simple V8 cars and eventually want to start tuning with this Supra but I have no experience with b58 as of yet. Is there a better platform for self-tuning or is it purely speculative? What platform is the best for monitoring and changing real time? I love my Holley EFI tuning for reference. I will be staying with 93 octane and will have access to race gas for hill climb events. So probably 2 tunes would be sufficient. Keep in mind, this is not a max effort set up and really just looking to add a little more power and keep reliability high. Any opinions would be great.

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[Traxion]

JB4 isn't worth the price anymore when you can get an unlock for $500 then buy MHD on top of that. A "stage 1" type tune shouldn't max out your clutch from everything I've seen. The biggest part of not blowing the tires off is having a custom pedal map against the torque request. For example you could have 30% throttle position request whatever percentage of max torque you want.

I can't advise on how to self tune as I'm not smart enough for that, but Razorlab is developing this tuning tool. It's not going to tell you where to start, but if you know how to learn tuning an engine and what tables need to be changed then it will point you in the right direction. He is also working on adding AI analysis and the ability to push recommended updates to the BIN files. I know he manually reviews logs in Datazap and uses this to analyze them further.

https://norcalmotorsports.org/logapp/landing.html

 

[swrdply400mrelay]

Would not go JB4 now that you can get an unlock stateside. Stage 1 OTS tune should be fine for stock clutch.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/stock-clutch-how-long-has-did-your-stock-clutch-last.37404/

 

[ColonelAdama]

It took me a few months to learn tuning on MHD but its a pretty big commitment. It has clutch torque limits you can use.

 

[omfgzilla]

You're doing all that work to upgrade to a Pure 600? That ain't gonna lower your IATs. I mean, what?............ maybe from 300 degrees to 296 pre throttle? lol. Why don't you just invest in an intake manifold and self-tune on the stock turbo? Upgrade to a Pure 800 or 900 later. Highly doubt you'll feel a difference in transients. You'll be dealing with traction issues to even notice a 500 RPM delay.

You're joking about the 93 octane and race gas part, right? Why would you overspend on race gas, lol? Go out of your way to find E85 in your location. Run meth with a flex-fuel kit if you want to reduce cylinder temperatures.

Between BM3 and MHD, pick whatever you want.
I'm on BM3 and it's buggy AF, but it's gotten better. Tuning is done on the cloud and the UI is intuitive. I think you need Rev2 to have real-time tuning.
With MHD, you have a bit more freedom. Tuning is done locally on a laptop, and I think it comes with real-time tuning straight out of the box. TunerPro is versatile, maybe not that intuitive, but that's subjective.

Would be nice to have razorlab here to chime in, but you can thank our useless mods for that. Hit up razorlab on IG.

FYI: JB4s are the dumbest things you can buy for this car.

 

[QTR FMS]

MHD is great but the issue is lack of support on the xdf definition file.

Its not difficult to define them if you have another definition file for a different rom, you can use hex editor to search for the address.

i can help you getting started to learn to tune and its honestly simple but there are like 200 tables you need to edit including multi map, i made a post with a base map for 6mt, you can also that as a reference to learn.

And the best thing about this platform that the ecu is smart to predict the fuel trim so its almost impossible to lean out the engine and the knock strategy is too aggressive that you would probably never damage the engine unless you had really aggressive timing for your fuel.

I use megalogviewer and excel templates i have built for datalogging, mhd datalogger is good but crashes alot and feels limiting me, razorlab (bryan) has also a great datalogger

just so you know you would get less support from other users if you use bm3 as you cant share the bin file

personally i would get pure800 it spool around 3000rpm and make power all the way to the rev limiter much better than stock

 

[ChrisRay]

That m240i Pure 600 dyno graph is a really nice run. I would like to limit the torque to probably 450 for 1st and 2nd but then let it eat for 3rd plus. Most of the very tight turns your only going in at 15-20mph and second is the gear but you are in the 2000's rpms before the apex. I end up using all rpms to 6500-7000 before hammering the brakes for the next. Pure 800's are no good for this style driving. I almost went for the pure 650 but decided to try the 600 first. If it's too small, I might get a 650 later. These style roads where I live are much different to highways around the rest of the nation. I do get into the top of 3rd alot but never brake 100mph before coming right back down. We pretty much try to stay under 75 for the back roads because of random deer and kids when not in a santioned event.
The fact that MHD has torque limiting and clutch adjustments per gear is pretty sweet. And MHD having that self tune option with the help here I probably will go with that. I really appreciate you guys's feedback.
As far as E85 is concerned though, yeah hell no. I want to keep this engine living for a while and pure gasoline is the way to do that. You should be changing your oil a lot more frequently if you are running e85 which totally negates the savings. The way I view it, if you can't pay to play, then you can't afford to mod your car. I'll probably be running Sunoco 260 GTX (98 octane ethanol and lead free) for the hill climb events then 93 for everything else. I've tuned a lot of high end snowmobiles and when we pull the engines apart they are pristine inside, from running gas. E85 causes the piston rings to gunk up and you can have bearing problems from the water that the ethanol absorbs. For a race engine, it's great. It's just short runs and engine will wear out before the E85 affects it. That's just my opinion though.

I do have a general understanding of tuning, so getting started shouldn't be a problem, but since you guys have taken the time to create a base file, I'd be stupid not to take you up on that. I'd also be happy to share and help as I get the tune perfected. I am all about helping others. I am very excited for this journey.

 

[omfgzilla]

As far as E85 is concerned though, yeah hell no. I want to keep this engine living.
You should be changing your oil a lot more frequently if you are running e85 which totally negates the savings. The way I view it, if you can't pay to play, then you can't afford to mod your car

Buddy, who said to run e85 all day everyday. It's a flex fuel kit. Don't care how many scooters or go-carts you've taken apart, one youtube video and you're shitting your pants for no reason. Go thicker grade and shorter OCI if you're that scared

Negates the savings?............... $22 bucks per gallon for race fuels.......5-7k OCI 40-50 bucks at Walmart. Whatever......... this type of logic is coming from someone that thinks running a 600 would help with IATs and twisty roads, along with thinking an 800 is like running a top mount 6870.

 

[QTR FMS]

That m240i Pure 600 dyno graph is a really nice run. I would like to limit the torque to probably 450 for 1st and 2nd but then let it eat for 3rd plus. Most of the very tight turns your only going in at 15-20mph and second is the gear but you are in the 2000's rpms before the apex. I end up using all rpms to 6500-7000 before hammering the brakes for the next. Pure 800's are no good for this style driving. I almost went for the pure 650 but decided to try the 600 first. If it's too small, I might get a 650 later. These style roads where I live are much different to highways around the rest of the nation. I do get into the top of 3rd alot but never brake 100mph before coming right back down. We pretty much try to stay under 75 for the back roads because of random deer and kids when not in a santioned event.
The fact that MHD has torque limiting and clutch adjustments per gear is pretty sweet. And MHD having that self tune option with the help here I probably will go with that. I really appreciate you guys's feedback.
As far as E85 is concerned though, yeah hell no. I want to keep this engine living for a while and pure gasoline is the way to do that. You should be changing your oil a lot more frequently if you are running e85 which totally negates the savings. The way I view it, if you can't pay to play, then you can't afford to mod your car. I'll probably be running Sunoco 260 GTX (98 octane ethanol and lead free) for the hill climb events then 93 for everything else. I've tuned a lot of high end snowmobiles and when we pull the engines apart they are pristine inside, from running gas. E85 causes the piston rings to gunk up and you can have bearing problems from the water that the ethanol absorbs. For a race engine, it's great. It's just short runs and engine will wear out before the E85 affects it. That's just my opinion though.

I do have a general understanding of tuning, so getting started shouldn't be a problem, but since you guys have taken the time to create a base file, I'd be stupid not to take you up on that. I'd also be happy to share and help as I get the tune perfected. I am all about helping others. I am very excited for this journey.

An intake manifold and interchiller might be better than pure600 for iat.

stock turbo is great until 19+ psi then it runs hot.

e50 gunk is better than gasoline carbon deposits, and i doubt it would become a real issue for you.

just to clarify i didnt mean MHD has self tuning, i meant B58 DME in general is alot more advanced and sophisticated than any standalone ecu, and its basically foolproof when it comes to tune it, there is no fuel model defined to tune , you just set your fuel target and it immediately finds without missing a beat. Same thing with timing it when it knocks it pulls 3 degrees of timing per knock events and holds it for 5 seconds or until you let go off the throttle, and for overboosting it shuts the throttle. So there is nothing you can do wrong in tuning that would do any real damage other than desensitizing the knock sensors

 

[NemesisDragon]

MHD is great but the issue is lack of support on the xdf definition file.

Its not difficult to define them if you have another definition file for a different rom, you can use hex editor to search for the address.

i can help you getting started to learn to tune and its honestly simple but there are like 200 tables you need to edit including multi map, i made a post with a base map for 6mt, you can also that as a reference to learn.

And the best thing about this platform that the ecu is smart to predict the fuel trim so its almost impossible to lean out the engine and the knock strategy is too aggressive that you would probably never damage the engine unless you had really aggressive timing for your fuel.

I use megalogviewer and excel templates i have built for datalogging, mhd datalogger is good but crashes alot and feels limiting me, razorlab (bryan) has also a great datalogger

just so you know you would get less support from other users if you use bm3 as you cant share the bin file

personally i would get pure800 it spool around 3000rpm and make power all the way to the rev limiter much better than stock

It took me a few months to learn tuning on MHD but its a pretty big commitment. It has clutch torque limits you can use.

How did you guys get started on learning MHD?

 

[NemesisDragon]

That m240i Pure 600 dyno graph is a really nice run. I would like to limit the torque to probably 450 for 1st and 2nd but then let it eat for 3rd plus. Most of the very tight turns your only going in at 15-20mph and second is the gear but you are in the 2000's rpms before the apex. I end up using all rpms to 6500-7000 before hammering the brakes for the next. Pure 800's are no good for this style driving. I almost went for the pure 650 but decided to try the 600 first. If it's too small, I might get a 650 later. These style roads where I live are much different to highways around the rest of the nation. I do get into the top of 3rd alot but never brake 100mph before coming right back down. We pretty much try to stay under 75 for the back roads because of random deer and kids when not in a santioned event.
The fact that MHD has torque limiting and clutch adjustments per gear is pretty sweet. And MHD having that self tune option with the help here I probably will go with that. I really appreciate you guys's feedback.
As far as E85 is concerned though, yeah hell no. I want to keep this engine living for a while and pure gasoline is the way to do that. You should be changing your oil a lot more frequently if you are running e85 which totally negates the savings. The way I view it, if you can't pay to play, then you can't afford to mod your car. I'll probably be running Sunoco 260 GTX (98 octane ethanol and lead free) for the hill climb events then 93 for everything else. I've tuned a lot of high end snowmobiles and when we pull the engines apart they are pristine inside, from running gas. E85 causes the piston rings to gunk up and you can have bearing problems from the water that the ethanol absorbs. For a race engine, it's great. It's just short runs and engine will wear out before the E85 affects it. That's just my opinion though.

I do have a general understanding of tuning, so getting started shouldn't be a problem, but since you guys have taken the time to create a base file, I'd be stupid not to take you up on that. I'd also be happy to share and help as I get the tune perfected. I am all about helping others. I am very excited for this journey.

This is not an opinion. You are not going to damage your engine long term by running ethanol. Ethanol is an excellent solvent. If you are so concern with gunk up and crap in your engine, maybe you should invest in better oil and shorten your OCI. If you are so afraid of ethanol and want to sleep well at night, you can run ethanol during your "race" event and swap to 93 after.
Best,

 

[omfgzilla]

How did you guys get started on learning MHD?

MHD self-tuning group on Facebook is good. Razor has probably already uploaded some more defined tables on there. Probably using WinOLS or something. Also started a thread here for self-tuning on bm3 but dumped this site and offers help on IG.
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/trash-site.15851/
You could probably use that thread for the basic tables to get you started. Of course, do your own due diligence, but this the best you got so far.

 

[ColonelAdama]

How did you guys get started on learning MHD?

MHD tuning guide, ecutek tuning guide, @razorlab self tuning thread, MHD DIY Tuning on Facebook and 100+ hours testing and revising on my own car(and some friends cars)

The Tuning Tools web app helps too if you have a reference tune to "reverse engineer". Look at @QTR FMS thread for some tune examples.

Some of my JB4 knowledge carried over.

 

[QTR FMS]

How did you guys get started on learning MHD?

Learned to tune MHD from MHD tuning guide, BM3 tuning guide, ECUTEK tuning guide, RazorLab tuning guide, and RFP tuning videos.

however I first started learning to tune in 2018 from HPAcademy, Evans Performance Academy, Greg Banish, and other sources but I highly recommend HPAcademy for first-time tuners, and Greg Banish for direct injection stuff as a foundation before messing with MHD stuff.

i think me and adam started to learn MHD around the same time and at somepoint we were talking on daily basis for couple of months on facebook, we shared tunes, datalog and definitions, testing different ideas until we got good at it.

 

[Subydude]

As anecdotal data, I'm familiar and have tuned with Haltech, Cobb, and HPTuners. Going from tuning NA V8's, especially ones without VVT, to the B58 using MHD is very different. I would suggest this being an instance of paying someone to get you the tune you want on the fuel you want and making sure the tune isn't locked so you can compare the stock map vs tuned map afterwards for learning and tweaking purposes.

I run the OTS stage 1 tune on my car in both 93 and E40 flavors. Ethanol is generally fine, but to your point it can require some extra care and feeding IF you like to let it sit a long time. The quicker oil changes are mostly irrelevant for us, but the power and lowered cylinder temps are pretty big.

That said, race gas is fine for power. I would definitely suggest a manifold over the turbo, or to compliment the turbo. IAT is still going to climb pretty quickly no matter what turbo you're running (assuming you're running it close to the limit of the compressor map).

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