Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[razorlab]

so on a stock car where is most of the heat transfer to air happening? I’m used to there being an intercooler but in this setup the exchange from the hot compressed air is transferred to engine coolant and then to the radiator?

The intake air is cooled by the intercooler in the intake manifold, which is cooled by a heat exchanger in front of the car. It's a totally separate cooling circuit than the engine coolant and engine oil.

Intake charge cooled by: Intake manifold intercooler and front heat exchanger
Engine oil and coolant cooled by: Front radiator, two side radiators, fluid filled block exchanger on oil filter housing.

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[Bug2th]

The intake air is cooled by the intercooler in the intake manifold, which is cooled by a heat exchanger in front of the car. It's a totally separate cooling circuit than the engine coolant and engine oil.

Intake charge cooled by: Intake manifold intercooler and front heat exchanger
Engine oil and coolant cooled by: Front radiator, two side radiators, fluid filled block exchanger on oil filter housing.

thanks. Been trying to figure that out. So what is the intake manifold cooled with, ie. Coolant too and does that system have a separate pump? Wondering if it’s worthwhile to have a water misting system in front of the front heat exchanger triggered at a specific temp?

 

[razorlab]

thanks. Been trying to figure that out. So what is the intake manifold cooled with, ie. Coolant too and does that system have a separate pump? Wondering if it’s worthwhile to have a water misting system in front of the front heat exchanger triggered at a specific temp?

Intake manifold is cooled by the heat exchanger in the front of the car. It's stacked with the radiator and transmission cooler.

Yes, there is a pump for all the cooling systems.

 

[Islindur]

Sorry, meant to respond sooner.




No, my oil temps and IATs are stupid high at the track. Even in 70* ambient, after several laps my oil will still ping 300*F eventually. I have done everything I can to verify I don't have bubbles in my coolant circuits. Everything was vacuum-filled.

I have AMS intake mani and CSF main HX + aux rads, + their upgraded trans cooler. I think I'm going to swap back to the thinner OEM trans cooler as I don't think the thick CSF one is needed and is robbing more air/cooling for the other rads. I also feel that their rock guard is blocking air as it has around .25-.5" of frame on all 4 sides of it, so going to swap back to the OE rock guard.

I know Razor hates CSF but I can't fathom how they could be worse than OE. That said I'm to the point where I'll swap them all back to OE just to see what temps do this summer, but by then I'm likely going to either have some holes in my hood, some tuning, and some other things done that won't really give me comparable data from last season.

TYRFRYR had an interesting theory that maybe due to the car being lower from the Nitron coilovers, the airflow is worse and is pocketing due to it having less space to escape out the downpipe area.

I do also know that a CSG tune would target lower coolant temps and I am currently still not tuned.

I have a hole in the hood (777 vent) but i went with pwr hx + rad, koyo aux + csf trans cooler on my 3.0. Wanna do wagner manifold to complete it. Baiscally this is the setup the fastest 600hp+ supras run so i just mimicked it. Have no temp problems so far but stock power. I also never solved cooling problems and 300+f oils on 2.0, so i sold it.

How do U like Nitron susp? R1 or r3? What spring rates did U go with? How are they on the road?
Im considering Nitron over Ohlins.

 

[FLtrackdays]

yes sir. Just a humble, non offensive, politically correct suggestion that may or may not be worth a ham sandwich.

I’m gonna grab a ham samwidge and start using more of the track myself. The VW driver was like watching an instructional video for using all the track

 

[Montaver]

Hello track hounds, potential Supra buyer here. I have tracked BMW's and more recently GT4's for a few years. I run in NASA TT mostly and some open lapping days. I have retired my GT4 to street duty and am looking at building something else, either Supra, F8x (which I know well as I owned an M2C), or possibly a G87. I have spent a few days reading threads on here and have a few questions.

Engine - I have an M340i as my daily, love the powertrain. How does the cooling hold up? There is a lot of conflicting feedback on here. It appears the best route is to upgrade the top mount intercooler/manifold?

Suspension - Early feedback was the car had a lot of bump steer. My general philosophy for mods is change as little as possible. I would add MCS/monoballs, or is changing some of the control arms necessary?

Fueling - how bad is the fuel starve? I am mostly running NJMP/LRP/WGI

Wheels - Looks like 11 inch square 295/35/18 is the ticket?

Brakes - Again some posters seem adamant the stock brakes are fine. Pads/ Fluid/ Girodiscs enough? They seem on the smaller side.

I have a lot of other questions but i'll start with that

 

[Rocksandblues]

Hello track hounds, potential Supra buyer here. I have tracked BMW's and more recently GT4's for a few years. I run in NASA TT mostly and some open lapping days. I have retired my GT4 to street duty and am looking at building something else, either Supra, F8x (which I know well as I owned an M2C), or possibly a G87. I have spent a few days reading threads on here and have a few questions.

Engine - I have an M340i as my daily, love the powertrain. How does the cooling hold up? There is a lot of conflicting feedback on here. It appears the best route is to upgrade the top mount intercooler/manifold?

* stock is mostly fine- once you start adding power you will need an intercooler to fight heat soak

Suspension - Early feedback was the car had a lot of bump steer. My general philosophy for mods is change as little as possible. I would add MCS/monoballs, or is changing some of the control arms necessary?

* bump steer was more pronounced in the 2020s, it is not horrible. you will want to add camber pretty quickly

Fueling - how bad is the fuel starve? I am mostly running NJMP/LRP/WGI
* bad- top off tank each session or install surge tank. some tracks on TT flier i starve at 3/4

Wheels - Looks like 11 inch square 295/35/18 is the ticket?

* yes- except you will need spacers and some luck fitting 295 and prob some rub w oem struts
275 and spacers are easier
Brakes - Again some posters seem adamant the stock brakes are fine. Pads/ Fluid/ Girodiscs enough? They seem on the smaller side.

fluid and pads is a must- especially if you are coming from TT

I NASA and SCCA TT down here in mid atlantic. want to get to NJ this year for sure

I have a lot of other questions but i'll start with that

 

[nibble]

Hello track hounds, potential Supra buyer here. I have tracked BMW's and more recently GT4's for a few years. I run in NASA TT mostly and some open lapping days. I have retired my GT4 to street duty and am looking at building something else, either Supra, F8x (which I know well as I owned an M2C), or possibly a G87. I have spent a few days reading threads on here and have a few questions.

Engine - I have an M340i as my daily, love the powertrain. How does the cooling hold up? There is a lot of conflicting feedback on here. It appears the best route is to upgrade the top mount intercooler/manifold?

Suspension - Early feedback was the car had a lot of bump steer. My general philosophy for mods is change as little as possible. I would add MCS/monoballs, or is changing some of the control arms necessary?

Fueling - how bad is the fuel starve? I am mostly running NJMP/LRP/WGI

Wheels - Looks like 11 inch square 295/35/18 is the ticket?

Brakes - Again some posters seem adamant the stock brakes are fine. Pads/ Fluid/ Girodiscs enough? They seem on the smaller side.

I have a lot of other questions but i'll start with that

This is my take. fyi. I run at NASA NE events.

Engine - I run stock and hasn't been issue at full 20 min. sessions.
Suspension - I only have anti-roll bar, front & rear and alignment from AZP. this change was specific to NJMP lightning turn 3/4 sequence. I haven't felt bump steer yet.
Fueling - will need gas after 3rd session. would be better to fill up during lunch.
Wheels - I run 275/35/18 square.
Brakes - I typically run OEM rotor and it will last about 1 season. And run hawk HP+ because I'm lazy to switch out before & after every track days. worked fine on street & track but if you want track only pad, there are many options and you may need to find out yourself. as for fluid, I use ATP but do switch out frequently.

hope it helps and look for me if you come out to NASA NE events.

 

[Montaver]

Thanks for the replies gents. In my mildly modded 718 GT4 on RT660's I run 2:03's at Watkins Glen in essentially TT3 trim, my hypothesis is the Supra should be able to be competitive for a lot less money (and stress). The fastest cars in TT3 at WGI are touching the 2:02's (an SS1LE and a very heavily modifed track only E92 M3) so that would be my goal. I would do MCS 2WR, cage/harness/brakes from the off so I would never be tracking the car stock.

Looking at the roll bar options, it seems only the studio RSR one looks good? I see the CMS bar (and I had one in my GT4 it was great) but that design looks suspect to me.

 

[noogie]

Thanks for the replies gents. In my mildly modded 718 GT4 on RT660's I run 2:03's at Watkins Glen in essentially TT3 trim, my hypothesis is the Supra should be able to be competitive for a lot less money (and stress). The fastest cars in TT3 at WGI are touching the 2:02's (an SS1LE and a very heavily modifed track only E92 M3) so that would be my goal. I would do MCS 2WR, cage/harness/brakes from the off so I would never be tracking the car stock.

Looking at the roll bar options, it seems only the studio RSR one looks good? I see the CMS bar (and I had one in my GT4 it was great) but that design looks suspect to me.

Would you consider Penske shocks? Seems like a lot of people default to MCS and not too many people talk about Penske.

 

[Montaver]

Sure why not, I am just not at all familiar with Penske gear. I have had two sets of MCS and two sets of Ohlins in the past, but in BMW/Porsche land no one is using Penske stuff really. With high end dampers I think the performance is broadly similar, it just comes down to support/shop knowledge/platform. For example Bilstein make some great stuff and so do KW, but the support for the US just isn't really there.

 

[garudathree]

you're also friends with D in the black f80 right? happy to coordinate and have an event where you can take some taxi laps to see how you feel about a budget build (you just missed an MT event where that's all i really did). i'm pretty sure we overlapped once or twice with scda

 

[razorlab]

Thanks for the replies gents. In my mildly modded 718 GT4 on RT660's I run 2:03's at Watkins Glen in essentially TT3 trim, my hypothesis is the Supra should be able to be competitive for a lot less money (and stress). The fastest cars in TT3 at WGI are touching the 2:02's (an SS1LE and a very heavily modifed track only E92 M3) so that would be my goal. I would do MCS 2WR, cage/harness/brakes from the off so I would never be tracking the car stock.

Looking at the roll bar options, it seems only the studio RSR one looks good? I see the CMS bar (and I had one in my GT4 it was great) but that design looks suspect to me.

You might have seen me and @garudathree out at LRP. White Supra and red Supra.

The supra is very capable, word is finally getting out. What do you do at LRP with the GT4? A non aero, stock power 2020 Supra with just MCS 2WNR suspension, 200tw tires and brake pads is able to do a 59.X at LRP. Add aero and you are 2-3 secs faster.

 

[Montaver]

you're also friends with D in the black f80 right? happy to coordinate and have an event where you can take some taxi laps to see how you feel about a budget build (you just missed an MT event where that's all i really did). i'm pretty sure we overlapped once or twice with scda

Yes that's right! We were going to do the Masstuning LRP event but his car broke and I knew I was retiring the 718 and my tires were shot anyway. Do you have any stuff lined up? Would be great to get some laps in and have a chat. I will speak to D as well and see what he has on the calendar.

 

[Montaver]

You might have seen me and @garudathree out at LRP. White Supra and red Supra.

The supra is very capable, word is finally getting out. What do you do at LRP with the GT4? A non aero, stock power 2020 Supra with just MCS 2WNR suspension, 200tw tires and brake pads is able to do a 59.X at LRP. Add aero and you are 2-3 secs faster.

Yeah I'm getting the impression the Supra has a lot of potential, I followed a lot of Jackie Dings journey on his channel and was very impressed. That man can wheel. Just looking at the numbers 400hp and 3300lbs with a modern chassis should be a recipe for performance, a 718 GT4 is very similar although NA and mid engine (31000lbs and 400HP). My only concern is I really don't know the platform at all, so just trying to learn as much as I can to make a decision. Easy mode for me would just be an F8x as that is an exceptionally well developed platform at this point that I know very well, or a G87 M2 which is just starting to come alive but is more expensive and a bit of a pig.

I never had the 718 at LRP, but guys who have similar WGI times to me are in the low 0:58's.

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