The Development Story of the MKV Supra

[FuzzyRev]

I do wish it had a Toyota manual trans though.

It's a ZF, and the MKIV used a Getrag. Stop fantasizing about something Toyota never made, or would bother to build from scratch in the first place.

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[concept]

Maybe from 30 40 years ago...

...more like 50 years ago. Actually, that's my grandpa who bought me the car.

 

[Spart]

It's a ZF, and the MKIV used a Getrag. Stop fantasizing about something Toyota never made, or would bother to build from scratch in the first place.

And the hypothetical LC500-based MkV may have gotten an Aisin, probably a RC variant. Or more likely, no manual at all. So what? Did you read a single word of the rest of the post you are quoting? I laid out why I think they shouldn't have rolled their own MkV based on the LC500.

Do you have an actual point or are you just jumping my ass for sport?

 

[razorlab]

The LC500 is such a trash car. It's like a country club cruise car. So boring.

 

[FuzzyRev]

Actually, that's my grandpa who bought me the car.

Wait, you didn't even purchase this thing yourself?!

 

[FuzzyRev]

The LC500 is such a trash car. It's like a country club cruise car. So boring.

Tee time is 0700, you better be there!

 

[razorlab]

Tee time is 0700, you better be there!

Tea time is how they measured shift speeds on the LC500. You can drive through two zip codes before it shifts to the next gear.

 

[J29DB03]

Tee time is 0700, you better be there!

Jesus, if you’re close enough to the cut line that you have a 0700 tee time just pack it up and go home.

 

[Spart]

The LC500 is such a trash car. It's like a country club cruise car. So boring.

The 2UR-GSE is a great engine though, and it's a shame we didn't get it in a better car.

 

[GRMan]

Here in Australia BMW went to a 5 year warranty on ALL VEHICLES, including MINIs. Your reasoning suggests that only the B58 models have had a warranty upgrade because Toyota. This is false. The bean counters at BMW chose 5 years; Toyota's bean counting department chose 7. Hyundai offer 10 for comparison. Nothing to see here.

Also - and I am no expert - but my understanding is that even before it was put in the Supra, the B58 was considered a very reliable engine. You know, before Toyota fixed it to make it even more reliable.



Meh. More marketing spin. The Cayman was the benchmark, that's all. All manufacturers set benchmarks. Our happened to be a Porsche.

Like all consumer grade cars, the Supra is a car full of compromises and unsurprisingly, all the things you mention are just things that weren't compromised. Remember the FT-1? Clearly Toyota compromised the geometry and allowed BMW to dictate what the chassis hardpoints would be. And not the other way around!



This isn't necessarily supportive evidence. We don't know why the development time was increased, although I believe that the linked video suggested there was a huge language barrier - which incidentally might go some way to explain how we got stuck with some of the more profoundly idiotic design choices in our cars.

Look.. I'm not saying Toyota didn't play a pivotal role - they obviously did. I'm even willing to concede they tore down some engines and ran some tests. What I see no evidence of is Toyota having actually improved already proven BMW technology. My bet would be that Toyota just chose wisely in selecting the B58 and then through careful testing confirmed their choice.

Toyota wanted to make a car that met their targets on a budget and for the most part I think they succeeded. Interestingly, I don't think they've ever flat out come out and said that, despite it being bleedingly obvious. "We partnered with BMW because they make nice, well performing cars and we needed financial support to bring the Supra back, considering our price and performance benchmarks."

What I am driving at is that most of what we read from Toyota PR - or their YouTube mouthpieces - is just marketing spin sprinkled with fanboy circle jerks. After all, this is the company that told us the fake vents in our cars were "functional" if you just remove them.. Never forget.



You really should look up confirmation bias. And maybe FIGJAM while you're at it.

You seem to have comprehension issue.

BMW offered a 3 years powertrain warranty on their cars until from November 2022!

Toyota offered a 7 years powertrain warranty from January 2019!

That means at the time when the Z4 came out with the B58, it only needs to be reliable for 3 years in principle whereas it needs to be reliable for 7 years for the Supra from the get-go. That means BMW had to make changes to the B58 to meet Toyota's warranty standard.

As to your other substancless augmentative points, I won't even bother to answer because they are all based on one thing - what you think!

I have no interest to understand or to find out what you think because seriously, I have zero respect for someone who has to be pat around on the little head to find the courage to get a lip job done on the car. Damn

 

[GRMan]

Except you make sound like BMW hadn't been able to make a good handling car with out Toyota's help. The M series, going back decades, has been a track and handling benchmark. In fact The M3 has been THE benchmark for countless manufacturers and testing.
The m3 drives circles around any Cayman in the same bracket. Always has.

No doubt the Supra has been a glorious product produced by a joint venture.

Let's be real here, my Supra bro, all BMW M cars are WAY TOO HEAVY to be even considered a close rival to a Cayman

 

[BMWAF]

You seem to have comprehension issue.

BMW offered a 3 years powertrain warranty on their cars until from November 2022!

Toyota offered a 7 years powertrain warranty from January 2019!

That means at the time when the Z4 came out with the B58, it only needs to be reliable for 3 years in principle whereas it needs to be reliable for 7 years for the Supra from the get-go. That means BMW had to make changes to the B58 to meet Toyota's warranty standard.

As to your other substancless augmentative points, I won't even bother to answer because they are all based on one thing - what you think!

I have no interest to understand or to find out what you think because seriously, I have zero respect for someone who has to be pat around on the little head to find the courage to get a lip job done on the car. Damn

LOL. Whatever pal, stay ignorant.

 

[Tacoma714]

It's a ZF, and the MKIV used a Getrag. Stop fantasizing about something Toyota never made, or would bother to build from scratch in the first place.

The fantasizing is the reason people still don't accept the MKV as a "real" Supra who are the same people who forgot MKIV sales tanked which is why they stopped making it which are also the same people who forgot LFA sales tanked which is why it died.
What happened to your cu later mkv?

 

[Schang105]

You newbies always find a way to make me feel old.

I made this video after spending quite a lot of time speaking with the engineers on the project, especially Tada-san. The old heads here will know that we were getting development updates as far back as 2016, and I documented most of the conversations I had so I could make this video.

I still don't know why so many people have such preconceived notions one way or the other. Some people want to believe BMW did it all, others want to believe that Toyota was the mastermind and BMW was just following orders. Neither are true. Companies of this scale have an extensive process to bring a product to market, and there is very distinct levels of oversight and focus depending on the practice and culture of their respective businesses.

The Supra/Z4 project was a success because the teams on both sides sacrificed a lot of their own processes to find new collaborative methods that let both parties be happy with the final car. But ask either company if they would do it again and they'd probably laugh and say "No way", but that's a video I'm not allowed to make lol.

Agreed, and I'm guessing the level of corporate PTSD with the project (perhaps) motivated Tada-san to retire, fortunately never having to jump onto another conference call out of Munich . I'm grateful to (1) Akio for backing the project and choosing Tada-san to lead it (2) Calty for doing the design and (3) BMW for going thru with the collaboration.

 

[concept]

Wait, you didn't even purchase this thing yourself?!

I'm getting to be like some of you guys - lots of joking around. Yes, I bought the Supra and I'm not 16 years old.

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