The MKIV vs MKV Thread

[DesmoSD]

I get it, and when you say it like that....of course it doesn’t sound exciting. Folks like @A70TTR , @Guff , and some others know more about this car other than “it’s a Z4 with Supra badging.” I wish more exciting details could be shared, but let’s give Toyota a chance to get some spotlight time.

You and I know different things about the MKV, keep that in mind .

Sure. Having inside knowledge is always a benefit. I've known (Guff) Ammar since the inception of the FT86, something like 2007 ish; so I know his feedback. I've tried to give Toyota a chance back then when they announced the "AE86 successor" with the same ringleader Tada. Boy was that a huge disappointment with the GT86/FRS/BRZ.

Keep this in mind, is this redemption or strike 2...

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[PerformanceSound]

Sure. Having inside knowledge is always a benefit. I've known (Guff) Ammar since the inception of the FT86, something like 2007 ish; so I know his feedback. I've tried to give Toyota a chance back then when they announced the "AE86 successor" with the same ringleader Tada. Boy was that a huge disappointment with the GT86/FRS/BRZ.

Keep this in mind, is this redemption or strike 2...

I don’t think it’s neither redemption or any more strikes.

Why do you feel like the MKV (up to this point) is a failure? I bet your answer will have something to do with 2JZ or “3JZ” right? Why didn’t Toyota design the engine, no?

Tell me what makes the MKV (up to this point) a failure or non-successor to the MKIV....lets make a list, seriously:

0-60: ?
1/4: ?
Weight: ?
Wheelbase: ?
Horsepower: ?
Torque: ?
Transmission: ?
Etc...

The “base” (standard) model MKV with a six cylinder will outperform the MKIV in all the above. So, how did Toyota fail...I really am interested in hearing your point honestly. Please don’t think I’m being sarcastic, just want to get other people’s perspective of things.

 

[DesmoSD]

I don’t think it’s neither redemption or any more strikes.

Why do you feel like the MKV (up to this point) is a failure? I bet your answer will have something to do with 2JZ or “3JZ” right? Why didn’t Toyota design the engine, no?

Tell me what makes the MKV (up to this point) a failure or non-successor to the MKIV....lets make a list, seriously:

0-60: ?
1/4: ?
Weight: ?
Wheelbase: ?
Horsepower: ?
Torque: ?
Transmission: ?
Etc...

The “base” (standard) model MKV with a six cylinder will outperform the MKIV in all the above. So, how did Toyota fail...I really am interested in hearing your point honestly. Please don’t think I’m being sarcastic, just want to get other people’s perspective of things.

At this point, I'm not classifying it as a failure. It hasn't even been unveiled nor have I got to drive it to fully disclose my opinion on the car. I want to give this car a chance but there are other cars that I would seek over the MKV.

Mind you, I've done the M Track Days at Thermal and the Master the Manual and the 991.2 GT3 driving events at the Porsche Exp Ctr in L.A as well as the fun drives up at Pebble. My bar is set a little higher when it comes to a sports coupe and have been enjoying the nice balance of my 911 through the twisty canyons on Sat and Sun mornings. Which in fact it's similar spec to the MKV being it has 355hp and checks in at 3,131 lbs.


1)3 pedals. Porsche PDK's are crisp and accurate but I want a car that I can row through the gears. Andreas Preuninger listened to his customers and brought back the manual.
2)BMW bugs. I really don't know what to expect as far as reliability, quality, serviceability and tune-ability, especially this is a first year production.
3)Toyota's collaborations/badge engineering. I'm not a fan of it, it's a crap out, it's lazy, it's pathetic for the company.

 

[RyanGT3RS]

NSX - no manual
GTR - no manual
LCF - no manual
RCF GT - no manual
only car you mentioned that has a manual is the Corvette.

I get the manual thing, I really do but you missing out man, mclaren 570s, amg gts/gtr, Etc.. Lol

(Named a few cars in that price bracket of the NSX and nismo gtr)

 

[wtf]

So, I was thinking about this the other day....and I don’t want to start a flame thread, but when the “special” MKV Supra’s comes out and start terrorizing the streets with all kinds of aftermarket 1000hp goodness...what will MKIV owners do?

I mean, one of the most appealing aspects of the MKIV’s was their ability to handle alot of power. So, for those still hanging on to or who just bought a MKIV, what does this mean to you all? Do you all feel like nothing will change, or will the MKIV Supra bubble burst?

I don't think many Supra owners were hanging onto their 20 year old car waiting for the day to buy the new one.

If a MKIV owner does buy one I don't see it as being a "replacement" for them, it would more likely be another car. Keep the old one for the mods they've probably done over the past 2 decades, and the new one as a comfortable weekender or daily.

I'm keeping both my JZA80's and adding the A90 to the collection (pending final specs and price).

 

[Bryster]

Continue to wait for a worthy Japanese successor to the MKIV.

Perhaps the MKVI...?

The first Electric Supra?

 

[Australian of The North]

The first Electric Supra?

If it wasn't Toyota, id its near certainty in a future generation, Toyota however inst big on electric cars, focusing on hydrogen at present.
I'm not expecting the little 4 pot A90's to have a hybrid option, but it wouldn't be shocked if there is a suprise Supra GR-H released in January.


Ok, so let me clarify some of my older arguments with this response to any A90 sales pitch:

"... So -let me understand - Your pitching me a less attractive and average performance car that disconnects me from driving by a CPU nanny which is overseeing everything I do in your electric steering, throttle and Finger clicking gearbox. I've also got no handbrake but a button instead, and I need software permissions to have any driving fun. Your giving me a ordinary dash by todays standards, no backseats and reduced storage in a very ordinary interior that's like anything else in the range of today. Your also giving me FAKE vents, FAKE engine sound through the speakers, and an engine cover to hide BMW badges. There isn't even a childish wow factor like an ineffective spoiler. .......<faceplam>...... So explain to me again -if I've got a better looking car, with a lot more x factors, like more seats and more storage, a real handbrake, NO CPU NAZI NANNY interfering with steering or throttle,both of which are mechanical and provide real actual feedback, PLUS a gearbox that requires actual skill and effort to work EXACTLY as I tell it to work, vents which are ALL FUNCTIONAL, no "EngineSound.mp3" speaker track in the cabin, a very cool and unique dash, up to TWO spoilers which actually provide effective CD reduction, all in a package which is incredibly reliable to modify and improve, which also, cost for cost, will have vastly superior performance , AND finally is far more engaging and rewarding experience .... why should I buy an A90 again?".

Clearly you see why I don't believe any substantial number of A80 owners would purchase an A90, let alone migrate away from the A80, or why the A90 would attract other enthusiasts with pedigree cars. An A80 has so much more have significant advantages over the A90 at present. Unless Toyota pull a rabbit out of hat in January, the A90's only advantage is being new. Otherwise its not competitive with the A80, nor almost that entire generation of performance cars.

If I was replacing my A80 Supra, it would have to be for something that's worthwhile and fun. The A90 will be fun, but it simply isn't going to match an A80's smile factor. The LC500 is much better choice, but because of its fat ass, I want to to wait for the LC-F to arrive first before deciding.

Now the FT1 however..... that's a different story and massive missed opportunity for Toyota.
I most likely would have sold my A80 without hesitation for an Ft1. We all may have needed a loan as it would have been very expensive, but I would have definitely looked at purchasing it if possible, we know on every level it was super cool in every way, and should have been the new supra ... But we didn't get the FT1, we got a BMW Z4, draped in a poor body-kit of the FT1 that then got slapped with a supra badge. And please dont try and argue the FT1 couldn't have ever been produced, its few stolen features on the LC and A90, plus the LFA's existence kills that argument. The Ft1 could have and it should have been produced., but instead - here we are.

 

[kaneda]

If it wasn't Toyota, id its near certainty in a future generation, Toyota however inst big on electric cars, focusing on hydrogen at present.
I'm not expecting the little 4 pot A90's to have a hybrid option, but it wouldn't be shocked if there is a suprise Supra GR-H released in January.


Ok, so let me clarify some of my older arguments with this response to any A90 sales pitch:

"... So -let me understand - Your pitching me a less attractive and average performance car that disconnects me from driving by a CPU nanny which is overseeing everything I do in your electric steering, throttle and Finger clicking gearbox. I've also got no handbrake but a button instead, and I need software permissions to have any driving fun. Your giving me a ordinary dash by todays standards, no backseats and reduced storage in a very ordinary interior that's like anything else in the range of today. Your also giving me FAKE vents, FAKE engine sound through the speakers, and an engine cover to hide BMW badges. There isn't even a childish wow factor like an ineffective spoiler. .......<faceplam>...... So explain to me again -if I've got a better looking car, with a lot more x factors, like more seats and more storage, a real handbrake, NO CPU NAZI NANNY interfering with steering or throttle,both of which are mechanical and provide real actual feedback, PLUS a gearbox that requires actual skill and effort to work EXACTLY as I tell it to work, vents which are ALL FUNCTIONAL, no "EngineSound.mp3" speaker track in the cabin, a very cool and unique dash, up to TWO spoilers which actually provide effective CD reduction, all in a package which is incredibly reliable to modify and improve, which also, cost for cost, will have vastly superior performance , AND finally is far more engaging and rewarding experience .... why should I buy an A90 again?".

Clearly you see why I don't believe any substantial number of A80 owners would purchase an A90, let alone migrate away from the A80, or why the A90 would attract other enthusiasts with pedigree cars. An A80 has so much more have significant advantages over the A90 at present. Unless Toyota pull a rabbit out of hat in January, the A90's only advantage is being new. Otherwise its not competitive with the A80, nor almost that entire generation of performance cars.

If I was replacing my A80 Supra, it would have to be for something that's worthwhile and fun. The A90 will be fun, but it simply isn't going to match an A80's smile factor. The LC500 is much better choice, but because of its fat ass, I want to to wait for the LC-F to arrive first before deciding.

Now the FT1 however..... that's a different story and massive missed opportunity for Toyota.
I most likely would have sold my A80 without hesitation for an Ft1. We all may have needed a loan as it would have been very expensive, but I would have definitely looked at purchasing it if possible, we know on every level it was super cool in every way, and should have been the new supra ... But we didn't get the FT1, we got a BMW Z4, draped in a poor body-kit of the FT1 that then got slapped with a supra badge. And please dont try and argue the FT1 couldn't have ever been produced, its few stolen features on the LC and A90, plus the LFA's existence kills that argument. The Ft1 could have and it should have been produced., but instead - here we are.

I couldn't have said it better myself. How can anyone even compare the A80 Supra, built by Toyota from the ground up, an iconic piece of car history to this co-collaboration with BMW. Here's my main issue. EVERY BMW made nowadays is a soul-less driving experience. SOUL-LESS. Yes, the performance numbers are good, but the visceral experience is lacking.

This new Supra is a BMW, not a Toyota. Let's be clear on that. The heart of any car is its engine. This has a BMW engine. Name me one other iconic car in the performance world today that is a Co-Collaboration? I'm waiting.

Magic happens when a company is trying to bury the competition, not design alongside them. Look, this car is cool, but to me it's just a more expensive version of a BRZ/Toyota 86.

If anything, this new Supra will just make the A80's go up in value. Big time.

 

[wtf]

Name me one other iconic car in the performance world today that is a Co-Collaboration? I'm waiting.

McLaren F1: BMW engine
Koeniggsegg: Ford engine
Aston Martin: Ford engine
Lamborghini: Audi engine
Pagani: Mercedes engine
Lotus: Toyota engine
Nobel: Volvo engine
Brabham BT62: Ford engine

Next question... I'm waiting...

 

[MA617M]

Aston now use AMG engines too

 

[mkivalex]

To be honest the "soul" would probably be fely more through the tune (which Toyota is doing) as opposed to the engine itself.

 

[wtf]

Ok, so let me clarify some of my older arguments with this response to any A90 sales pitch:

"... So -let me understand - Your pitching me a less attractive

A purely subjective opinion. Read through the posts, some people wholeheartedly disagree. When a new generation of car comes out, there are always polarising opinions.

average performance car that disconnects me from driving by a CPU nanny which is overseeing everything I do in your electric steering, throttle and Finger clicking gearbox.

Every modern sports car and supercar controls throttle, steering, and gear shifts electronically.

In fact it’s known to improve performance and driveability in most cases. Not to mention it’s part of the design rules and safety ratings to have things like TRC and ESC, which requires electronic aids.

Even the late model VVT-I JZA80 is fly by wire. Don’t let that throttle cable trick you, it doesn’t actually move the throttle body. It’s electronic.

I've also got no handbrake but a button instead, and I need software permissions to have any driving fun.

Show me a modern performance car that isn’t a budget entry level car that has an old school handbrake? Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche, the list goes on - all use electronic handbrakes.

Your giving me a ordinary dash by todays standards, no backseats and reduced storage in a very ordinary interior that's like anything else in the range of today.

Digital dash, ordinary? I actually think the interior looks quite decent.

Now you’re saying no back seats is a deal breaker?? Who in their right mind buys a sports car and complains the back seats are in their list of gripes. Maybe look at a four door c63 or m3 if you want back seats in a vaguely fast car.

Your also giving me FAKE vents, FAKE engine sound through the speakers, and an engine cover to hide BMW badges. There isn't even a childish wow factor like an ineffective spoiler. .......<faceplam>......

Hot tip: if you don’t like the “fake vents” you can easily make them functional like they are on the GR racing concept. That’s exactly what I did on my 86 ‍.

I think you’ll find the engine cover is actually to hide the mess of wiring and piping. There might be some bmw stamps on parts but I highly doubt the cover is hiding any “badges”.

So explain to me again -if I've got a better looking car, with a lot more x factors, like more seats and more storage, a real handbrake, NO CPU NAZI NANNY interfering with steering or throttle,both of which are mechanical and provide real actual feedback, PLUS a gearbox that requires actual skill and effort to work EXACTLY as I tell it to work, vents which are ALL FUNCTIONAL, no "EngineSound.mp3" speaker track in the cabin, a very cool and unique dash, up to TWO spoilers which actually provide effective CD reduction, all in a package which is incredibly reliable to modify and improve, which also, cost for cost, will have vastly superior performance , AND finally is far more engaging and rewarding experience .... why should I buy an A90 again?".

You’re clearly not the target audience if your citing all those (mostly nonsense) points. If you’re happy with a rattly, outdated, 150,000km old car then maybe the jza80 is for you. I love mine but it’s still an old car. It will be occasionally temperamental, it will have flaws, it will rattle, it might have a window that goes up slower than the other, it will have interior scuffs, tears and missing clips, and generally be a little bit worn out. There’s something nice about having a modern, clean, new car that has zero problems or flaws.

Do I think the A90 is perfect? No, and the biggest drawback for me is the lack of offering of DCT (as far as we know so far). I think it looks ok (could be better), the interior is nice, by all accounts it handles well and is reasonably quick (but obviously everything could be faster), sounds ok (though I don’t think you can beat the sound of s big single 2J) and despite the drawbacks it is great to see the execs at Toyota are willing to throw us a bone with something sporty.

It might not be all that I’d wished for, but it’s a start, and for the estimated price point I don’t see anything I’d prefer. Porsche Cayman is probably the closest comparable vehicle and they are well over $100k in AU.

Clearly you see why I don't believe any substantial number of A80 owners would purchase an A90, let alone migrate away from the A80, or why the A90 would attract other enthusiasts with pedigree cars. An A80 has so much more have significant advantages over the A90 at present.

Then just hold onto your old A80. They’re a great car but like I said - I don’t think someone with your mindset is their target demographic.

 

[Jabba]

You’re clearly not the target audience if your citing all those (mostly nonsense) points. If you’re happy with a rattly, outdated, 150,000km old car then maybe the jza80 is for you. I love mine but it’s still an old car. It will be occasionally temperamental, it will have flaws, it will rattle, it might have a window that goes up slower than the other, it will have interior scuffs, tears and missing clips, and generally be a little bit worn out. There’s something nice about having a modern, clean, new car that has zero problems or flaws.

Then just hold onto your old A80. They’re a great car but like I said - I don’t think someone with your mindset is their target demographic.

Omg, Thank you. My thoughts exactly revolving around this topic. I don't know why ppl look at the A90 as a replacement, it should be an addition to the garage, but whatever #notyoursupra.

 

[AHP]

The “base” (standard) model MKV with a six cylinder will outperform the MKIV in all the above. So, how did Toyota fail...I really am interested in hearing your point honestly. Please don’t think I’m being sarcastic, just want to get other people’s perspective of things.

It's absolutely laughable to consider the MKIV as the performance benchmark for the MKV, in any trim, to exceed. Almost 3 decades of market progress, R&D, anticipation, etc.. and all we can expect/speculate as an output (of another unwanted co-collaboration) is merely incremental progress over its aged predecessor..? Puh-leeze.. It's akin to a participation trophy, not earned success.

This car is a phoned-in, money-grab by Toyota, IMO. They didn't have an engine, they didn't have a transmission, they didn't have the spirit, they didn't have anything other than a desire to capitalize on the Supra brand equity, with the least amount of friction to get to market. As such, we're now presenting with a hardtop Z4 with a few Toyota tweaks and body cladding, that aside from an I6, bears absolutely zero semblance with the Supra heritage/legacy.

If this car carried any other nameplate, no one would be talking about it. 98% of the buzz this car generates is simply a result of Toyota leveraging the "Supra" name.

 

[Nurburgring]

Do we really have to go through this with every MK IV owner?

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