The MKIV vs MKV Thread

[kaneda]

It's absolutely laughable to consider the MKIV as the performance benchmark for the MKV, in any trim, to exceed. Almost 3 decades of market progress, R&D, anticipation, etc.. and all we can expect/speculate as an output (of another unwanted co-collaboration) is merely incremental progress over its aged predecessor..? Puh-leeze.. It's akin to a participation trophy, not earned success.

This car is a phoned-in, money-grab by Toyota, IMO. They didn't have an engine, they didn't have a transmission, they didn't have the spirit, they didn't have anything other than a desire to capitalize on the Supra brand equity, with the least amount of friction to get to market. As such, we're now presenting with a hardtop Z4 with a few Toyota tweaks and body cladding, that aside from an I6, bears absolutely zero semblance with the Supra heritage/legacy.

If this car carried any other nameplate, no one would be talking about it. 98% of the buzz this car generates is simply a result of Toyota leveraging the "Supra" name.

You are absolutely correct. What part of this car did Toyota actually engineer? Other than the body? Why are people saying this is a SUPRA? It's a BMW with a Supra badge on it, no more.

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[MA617M]

I don't think many Supra owners were hanging onto their 20 year old car waiting for the day to buy the new one.

If a MKIV owner does buy one I don't see it as being a "replacement" for them, it would more likely be another car. Keep the old one for the mods they've probably done over the past 2 decades, and the new one as a comfortable weekender or daily.

I'm keeping both my JZA80's and adding the A90 to the collection (pending final specs and price).

Same. Mark, is that you? I have a message for you.

Behold, I need to tell you a story, I'd rather not have told.
Of a Mustard Mayhem.
I'm running in my sleep
From Mustard Man
He chases me into the last sunrise
And fucks me in his Mom's minivan

 

[AHP]

Do we really have to go through this with every MK IV owner?

Here's a thought.. Maybe help yourself by avoiding threads specifically RE: MKIV ...?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

@kaneda were you like born yesterday or something?

 

[KahnBB6]

Funny... just yesterday a friend took me for a ride in his bone stock 2017 BMW M2 6-speed manual and I found it to be the complete opposite of a "soulless" experience.

That being said, BMW's idea of a real sports machine (their M line) and Toyota's are different and I expect Toyota's MKV to be of a very markedly different and slightly wilder character from even that of the M2. Depending on the A90 trim level one has... or modifies.

Plus, since the M2 Competition now has gone from 365hp to 400hp or so (mostly because it was cheaper to drop in the M3's turbo engine to meet emissions rather than develop an entirely new one for the M2) there is going to be an MKV variant meeting and undoubtedly exceeding that power figure in Toyota's own way even if what they started with was the standard BMW B58 architecture.

As far as a very old A80/2JZ platform stacking up against the new one... there are FAR easier vehicle development cycles to have gone through if Toyota just wanted to slap a badge on a car with no changes and call it a "Supra".

That's what Dodge did with the Stealth, including the R/T Twin Turbo version. It was literally a 3000GT VR-4 with different removable body panels and very minor cosmetic changes. Same with the DSM Eclipse line too.

But a real cash grab move is Mitsubishi making some forgettable SUV and badging it "Eclipse". Or further back, Mitsubishi succeeding the 1999 Eclipse GSX with a tremendously underwhelming FWD only non-turbo body that didn't even look nearly as good as the outgoing model. There's a cash grab.

Or Ford killing their Fiesta and Focus ST's and the RS (in the USA) and then claiming that their Edge "ST" is a worthy replacement. That's totally a cash grab too.

Toyota taking this long to develop the A90 and actually put the work in regardless of sharing costs with BMW so as to not make it so out of reach as to be in GTR Nismo only price territory isn't really the same thing at all. They definitely want to make money even with a niche halo sportscar but it's not at all the same as those other examples.

It's not even the same as the built-to-a-very-low-price-point GT86 and BRZ... both cars which in their own right I have enjoyed driving. I didn't expect either of those cars to be a Supra.

I don't own an A80 but I do own something very much close to one and I always planned to keep it in the stable. However I am also interested in the A90 as its own animal from the A80 with the same spirit and at least the same heritage in terms of the people working it over to make it live up to the standard already established.

 

[Nurburgring]

Here's a thought.. Maybe help yourself by avoiding threads specifically RE: MKIV ...?

All your "arguments" (eg: not a real toyota, not a worthy successor, not a real supra) have been discussed ad nauseam in this forum before. But if you still need to vent your anger towards a still unknown-specification car that nobody has driven, tested or compared, feel free. Just don´t expect people to care.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Funny... just yesterday a friend took me for a ride in his bone stock 2017 BMW M2 6-speed manual and I found it to be the complete opposite of a "soulless" experience.

That being said, BMW's idea of a real sports machine (their M line) and Toyota's are different and I expect Toyota's MKV to be of a very markedly different and slightly wilder character from even that of the M2. Depending on the A90 trim level one has... or modifies.

Plus, since the M2 Competition now has gone from 365hp to 400hp or so (mostly because it was cheaper to drop in the M3's turbo engine to meet emissions rather than develop an entirely new one for the M2) there is going to be an MKV variant meeting and undoubtedly exceeding that power figure in Toyota's own way even if what they started with was the standard BMW B58 architecture.

As far as a very old A80/2JZ platform stacking up against the new one... there are FAR easier vehicle development cycles to have gone through if Toyota just wanted to slap a badge on a car with no changes and call it a "Supra".

That's what Dodge did with the Stealth, including the R/T Twin Turbo version. It was literally a 3000GT VR-4 with different removable body panels and very minor cosmetic changes. Same with the DSM Eclipse line too.

But a real cash grab move is Mitsubishi making some forgettable SUV and badging it "Eclipse". Or further back, Mitsubishi succeeding the 1999 Eclipse GSX with a tremendously underwhelming FWD only non-turbo body that didn't even look nearly as good as the outgoing model. There's a cash grab.

Or Ford killing their Fiesta and Focus ST's and the RS (in the USA) and then claiming that their Edge "ST" is a worthy replacement. That's totally a cash grab too.

Toyota taking this long to develop the A90 and actually put the work in regardless of sharing costs with BMW so as to not make it so out of reach as to be in GTR Nismo only price territory isn't really the same thing at all. They definitely want to make money even with a niche halo sportscar but it's not at all the same as those other examples.

It's not even the same as the built-to-a-very-low-price-point GT86 and BRZ... both cars which in their own right I have enjoyed driving. I didn't expect either of those cars to be a Supra.

I don't own an A80 but I do own something very much close to one and I always planned to keep it in the stable. However I am also interested in the A90 as its own animal from the A80 with the same spirit and at least the same heritage in terms of the people working it over to make it live up to the standard already established.

Very well said Craig!

I was so against the MKV, but like you said the development time they spent wasn’t for badge engineering....they had to have started up top and worked their way down. In other words, I believe they have been working on a badass MKV Supra for quite some time, and will introduce the “detuned” versions first. I know there is going to be a badass MKV in time, I know it.

I just wanna know when and how much.

Btw, love your SC...I haven’t been on CL much lately, how is the project going?

 

[wtf]

This car is a phoned-in, money-grab by Toyota, IMO. They didn't have an engine, they didn't have a transmission, they didn't have the spirit, they didn't have anything other than a desire to capitalize on the Supra brand equity,

So the MKIV wasn’t a Supra then since they “didn’t have a transmission”, considering getrag made it.. or the rest of Toyota’s lineup being Aisin.

Toyota no longer make a straight six. There are no other cars in their catalogue that use it may utilise that layout. If they were to develop a new straight six from the ground up, the resulting car would be uneconomical.

The old Supra was built in the golden age of Japanese manufacturers splurging on ambitious projects. These days they are far more conservative.

If you were a shareholder then I guarantee you’d be nervous if they decided to dump billions of dollars into a car that has a very limited audience, and no parts shared with its siblings.

Unfortunately they have to cater to what makes financial sense. If that means we get a watered down version then it’s better than what most of the manufacturers are doing where they’ve completely hung their hat up on the performance segment.

As such, we're now presenting with a hardtop Z4 with a few Toyota tweaks and body cladding, that aside from an I6, bears absolutely zero semblance with the Supra heritage/legacy.

Because the mk2, mk3 and mk4 carried over so much similarity from the previous model. Have you looked at how totally different they are!!!? They don’t even have a remotely similar outline, and if parked next to one another you wouldn’t know they were an evolution of the previous gen.


I am not just blindly defending Toyota and their decisions. I just happen to understand why there was the call to share a platform with bmw and I quite simply don’t care. I think the exterior is from what I can tell not quite what I had hoped for but I honestly have no problem with them sharing the parts bin with BMW.

If they didn’t then it would be a V6 from the Toyota stable, and all you whiners would be complaining that it was a “tuned camry” and that a “real Supra has to have a straight six”.

 

[AHP]

All your "arguments" (eg: not a real toyota, not a worthy successor, not a real supra) have been discussed ad nauseam in this forum before. But if you still need to vent your anger towards a with a still unknown-specification car that nobody has driven, tested or compared, feel free. Just don´t expect people to care.

Riiiiiight.. And yet here you (and the other white knights) are, choosing to continually engage (care).... The irony is palpable. Especially considering this thread is essentially asking MKIV owners what their reaction/response is to this car. I've owned 5 MKIV's TT's over the years, auto and manual, stock to 1100WHP and everything in between, so I believe my ability to opine in this particular thread/topic, as a MKIV owner, is qualified. You and any other white knights, on the topic at-hand..?

 

[Jabba]

Lmaooooo cool story bro, if we're going into specifics the thread is called, "what will MKIV owners do?" Seeing all your responses with all your extensive knowledge of the A80, it seems the answer is to complain (sry strongly disagree) and talk about Toyota of old. Learned something new today .

Speaking of irony, why join a discussion MKV website to talk about the glorious MKIV? Probably b/c your interested in the terrible MKV? But whatever I'm just a white knight...

 

[BrettS]

White knights eh

 

[SupraStew85]

Looks like we have another dude thats really fun at parties on our hands.

 

[KahnBB6]

Very well said Craig!

I was so against the MKV, but like you said the development time they spent wasn’t for badge engineering....they had to have started up top and worked their way down. In other words, I believe they have been working on a badass MKV Supra for quite some time, and will introduce the “detuned” versions first. I know there is going to be a badass MKV in time, I know it.

I just wanna know when and how much.

Btw, love your SC...I haven’t been on CL much lately, how is the project going?

^^ Yes. And I know you know Tetsuya Tada has gone on record before in the last two years more than once to state that the MKV development began first as a co-development of the underpinning platform and then after they developed it at first normally and got initial feedback Tada shifted into developing full MKV racing trims before gradually moving from there down through the production trim levels.

Usually you do not do that when preparing a normal car for release. Even BMW does it the other way around with their M cars: normal model first, factory performance special second.

The detuned versions selling first, including auto-only for 2019 models, is guaranteed to sell more than the models we're all interested in. Although so far I don't actually think even the "regular" MKV's will be in any way bad. They just won't be what you and A70 have referred to as the later "Alpha" cars.

I'm also of the mind that I don't think there isn't a lot to dislike about the lesser MKV variants (considering the 4cyl turbo versions, remember once long ago the MKIII came in a 2.0L I6 turbo 200-230hp 1G-GTE with a W58) so long as they have manuals available. Those just obviously aren't going to be what the high end I6's and especially GRMN/TRD's will be.

Like you I am patiently waiting to hear details on when, when for which trim levels, when for any manual trim levels.... and of course how much for each. And just how rare even the lesser trims will be. If we only get I6 versions in the USA I imagine they may well be not so common to see on the road despite high allocation for Japan and the USA.

...

And thanks for the compliment! The SC project has been going very well. It's nearly completed and is well into normal use. There are a couple of final kinks to work out, the solving of which has been delayed over the holidays but once sorted next month it will be in full semi-DD service with the remaining cosmetic restoration to follow. Remember I deliberately built it for longevity rather than big numbers although I'd have no trouble getting more power later, haha. The latest progress is detailed on my thread if you're curious

I miss seeing your updates for your now sold Z32 project but I know where your long term focus has been lately Still, I'll be excited to see if you do anything with the 2JZ driveline you've built.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Looks like we have another dude thats really fun at parties on our hands.

Lmao!

 

[Supra Turbo]

Multiple MKIV TT 6sp owner here, possibly adding MKV in the future pending top trim level and availability of a strong manual transmission (DCT at minimum).

Supramania.com - MKIII
Supraforums.com - MKIV
Supramkv.com - MKV

All of these will be biased towards its favorable platform. As someone said earlier... pick your poison.

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