The MKIV vs MKV Thread

For those with mkiv's, will you be selling yours to get a mkv?


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vb22

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SUPRA-HEATED ECONOMY – REFERENCE MARK

Why the next recession will happen in 2019

Economists and stock pickers have their supercomputers humming to try to determine when the next recession and market swoon will happen.

I don’t need all that fancy software. Nor do I need to analyze reams of political or trade-trend white papers. My quarter-mile-long measuring stick for economic calamity: Japanese sports cars.

That’s because the past three recessions can all be connected to when Japan’s automakers launched a new generation of hair-pinning acceleration monsters. I’m not sure if it’s correlation, causation, or coincidence. All I know is that it happens.

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the last three measurable U.S. recessions happened July 1990–March 1991, March 2001–November 2001, and December 2007–June 2009.

Let’s walk through what happened in each of them.

1990: The Japanese bubble economy bursts, triggering a global economic crisis, including here in America. What else was happening then? The Acura NSX, Nissan 300ZX twin-turbo, and Mitsubishi 3000GT were launching (as was Mazda’s doomed Amati luxury brand), followed a year or two later by the Lexus SC 400, Mazda RX-7 twin-turbo, and Toyota Supra. Sure, Lexus, Mazda, and Toyota could have killed or delayed the cars, but sunk-cost theory evidently wasn’t in vogue back then. No one was about to blink, lack of consumer confidence be damned.
2001: A lot of folks pin this recession on the 9/11 attacks, but America was already deep into a recession by September 2001, thanks to the dot-com collapse. Want to know what was on the boats coming over from Japan? The gleaming new Honda S2000. Guess what was in the immediate pipeline? The Mazda RX-8, and Nissan 350Z.
2007: The banking and real estate crises put the global economy in the tank. Guess what was rolling into dealerships: The Nissan GT-R. Meanwhile the Lexus LFA was all over auto show stands. And Honda was due to launch its next NSX, but smartly killed it.

How could these wondrous cars have such fantastically awful luck?

Well, Japanese automakers are overseen by bean counters who are exceedingly conservative. Oh, sure, Toyota has been spending upward of $10 billion a year on R&D of late, but it’s always on essential stuff—such as hybrids, fuel cells, solid-state batteries, and the Camry and RAV4 redesigns. It’s the sensible shoes approach.

But a sports car or supercar? That’s a $500 million to $1 billion investment in a low-volume entry, often riding on a bespoke platform and powered by a bespoke engine. These are real-deal rear-wheel-drive sports cars, not warmed-over hot hatches. The gigantic expenditure and amortization can only be measured profitably in terms of marketing impressions and media moments.

That said, when times are good and profits are high, Japanese automakers have green-lit sports cars like they hit “00” three times in a row at the Caesar’s Palace roulette tables. During the booming ’80s, the roaring ’90s, and the go-go aughts, approval for sports cars got waved through like they were bothersome mosquitos.

The problem is that cars like that are complicated to develop and manufacture. R&D typically takes several years from green light to Job 1—by which time, the superheated economy has started to cool, sometimes dramatically so.

To make this not just a lesson in theoretical gymnastics, I’ll do some math, too.

For the 11 economic cycles from 1945 through the last recession, the average number of months between peaks (or between troughs) was about 69, according to NBER. But the longest stretches were 100, 117, and 128 months. As this column hits the streets, since the end of the last trough in June 2009, it’s been 105 months. In other words, we’re due.

Guess what’s also due? The next Nissan GT-R redesign—it’s had 10 years of incremental changes, and Nissan bosses said in 2016 the new model was under development. Toyota has made the wait for the next Toyota Supra the “the longest introduction in the history of mankind,” in the words of North American boss Jim Lentz. Expect it to hit market early next year. And while Mazda has been perpetually putting the RX-9 on the backburner, the 100th anniversary of the automaker is 2020, and car companies like to give themselves lavish birthday presents.

I’m going to split the difference between those introduction dates, factor in the trough trends, and call my shot: We will start our next recession in May 2019.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/supra-heated-economy-reference-mark/
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DevonK

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Look at the bright side - if the economy really does go into the crapper, you'll be able pick up a new Supra for a nice discount. :D
 

Bakerr6

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I would find it hard pressed to take any advice from that article. The prior causes of recessionary periods were not due to these car manufacturers making lavish vehicles, but are more of a product of a cyclical sector.
 

solidsamir

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I would find it hard pressed to take any advice from that article. The prior causes of recessionary periods were not due to these car manufacturers making lavish vehicles, but are more of a product of a cyclical sector.
I don't think you understand the article. They aren't saying that car makers caused the recession but rather that Japanese car makers tend to make sport cars right around the time recessions hit.
 

HKz

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Interesting but nonetheless means nothing.. the author just cherry picked cars that were seemingly tied to recessions merely by being close in time. S2K and 350Z caused the 2001 recession? Lol the S2K wasn't a big seller for a cheaper car and it was out 2 years prior and the 350Z wasn't even out when 9/11 happened. Not to mention, all these cars obviously take years of development so if true that means Japan clearly can predict the future.
 

awegrzyn

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Topic went from car observations to recession observations. I wonder why.
 

HKz

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Topic went from car observations to recession observations. I wonder why.
Because if you lurked around this forum long enough you'll find that your rants are #384829 on the list. Old news, we've already beaten to death all those points you've made..
 

awegrzyn

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Then why you even bother replying? Unless you don't have a life.
 

solidsamir

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Interesting but nonetheless means nothing.. the author just cherry picked cars that were seemingly tied to recessions merely by being close in time. S2K and 350Z caused the 2001 recession? Lol the S2K wasn't a big seller for a cheaper car and it was out 2 years prior and the 350Z wasn't even out when 9/11 happened. Not to mention, all these cars obviously take years of development so if true that means Japan clearly can predict the future.
Correlation does not mean causation. The author is simply pointing out the correlation between the production of Japanese sports cars and market contractions.

You don't have to be a clairvoyant to predict market contractions and recessions...they happen about every decade. The article says "bean counters" working for the Japanese car makers wait until there a market boom before justifying the cost of R&D on sports cars...

Nothing hard about any of this, don't need to "predict the future"

My theory is that Toyota knows the economy has been doing great and people are flush with cash. Thereby they release a pricy sports car which people would be enthused enough to buy in large quantities. This ensures that during the recession, they are earning extra income despite the downturn. Don't forget, Toyota was opening a plant in Alabama around 2008 while the Big 3 were shutting plants down.

Timing the market baby
 

awegrzyn

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^ I love how no one got the point. That is the exact same thinking as Toyota and the rest of the world. I'm done as far as this topic goes.
I let you have fun. I make the same mistake pointing the obvious, but it's never obvious to at least 99% of you.
 

Bakerr6

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I don't think you understand the article. It says in plain English that the next recession will be in 2019, based off current sports car trends. It's making a hypothesis that the market corrects based off sports car trends, which we know is not the case
 

tisdrew

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3. 355HP is way more than we need. The best Toyota Supras I owned were unmolested 320hp cars. My race car has about 120HP and is the coolest car I ever driven. One can outdrive others in a 355HP car. Everything is in:driveability, balance, feel, characteristics, reliability, and fun as oppose to outright power. Toyota rightly so ignored kids asking for 500 HP.
(emphasis mine)

Preach it! I'm totally fine with even the lower 335 rumor. It's like people have forgotten that the JDM icons all had only 275-325 horsepower: GTRs, FD3S, A80, Evo IX, STI, and NSX. It's plenty enough for factory street cars. That even ignores the popular but less powerful cars like s14, s2000, integra type r, miata, 300zx, 240/280z. The GTRs and Supras were the "heavy hitters" and "JDM Muscle".
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