Toyota GR Supra Racing Concept Officially Revealed!

[MA617M]

As far as what was said, it was all in house for the 2JZ. The TRD engineer that I spoke with about much of this said Yamaha actually designed full engines for Toyota versus just cylinder heads like many think. I was also under the impression they only did heads, specifically due to that being true of certain motors like the Lexus F stuff, but the LFA V10, 1JZ, and some others were top to bottom treatment by them, which is awesome.

But yeah, he said they already knew they wanted a 3L variant of the JZ when the 1J debuted, but they didn't want to have Yamaha redesign it again so they bumped displacement and played with the head a bit and called it even. Hence the lack of Yamaha badge anywhere on the motor in contrast to the 1JZ.

Ahhh, yes, Yamaha was who I was thinking of.

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[turboflgrl]

We know the base model(s) will have a four-cylinder. By this logic, they will not be a Supra. I may be going out on an extremely long limb, but how likely do we think it is that the four-cylinder trim level(s) will be under a different name, possibly with a manual option, since BMW mates a manual to its four-cylinders. Perhaps a name like... Celica?

That wouldn’t sound implausible - Celica Supra is their roots. I just don’t believe they’re really trying too hard to continue the lineage or continue from where they left off. To me this is feeling more and more like a new car altogether. Not bad for everyone of course but if that’s the case, they need to use a new name or at least explain how this vehicle ties in with its rich history. I’m sure they’ll touch on it more once the production model is released..... hopefully.

 

[Jeff Lange]

We know the base model(s) will have a four-cylinder. By this logic, they will not be a Supra. I may be going out on an extremely long limb, but how likely do we think it is that the four-cylinder trim level(s) will be under a different name, possibly with a manual option, since BMW mates a manual to its four-cylinders. Perhaps a name like... Celica?

I suppose it's possible the 4's get a manual, but BMW puts a manual behind the 6 as well.

Jeff

 

[dawsonj87]

That wouldn’t sound implausible - Celica Supra is their roots. I just don’t believe they’re really trying too hard to continue the lineage or continue from where they left off. To me this is feeling more and more like a new car altogether. Not bad for everyone of course but if that’s the case, they need to use a new name or at least explain how this vehicle ties in with its rich history. I’m sure they’ll touch on it more once the production model is released..... hopefully.

I'm certainly hoping so. It would also back up the claims from a few months ago that said Toyota will have three sports cars in their lineup again. I would take a manual Celica as a budget Supra any day! It would make a fantastic daily driver for me.

I suppose it's possible the 4's get a manual, but BMW puts a manual behind the 6 as well.

Jeff

Very true. This has also crossed my mind. I'm reading so many articles that disagree with one another that it really is hard to put my finger on what can be separated from plausible to definitely not happening.

 

[Jeff Lange]

The one thing that I find interesting is the argument that can't Toyota build their own cars? But then you look at their long-standing relationship with Yamaha, who have designed many of the great Toyota engines over the years, and in fact hand-built the Toyota 2000GT for Toyota and you have to think, at some point, way back when, they had their first collaboration. Obviously both companies were a bit different back then, as were their relatively few enthusiasts, but what would these people have said about Toyota having Yamaha build their halo car?

Just a thought, something worth thinking about. 25+ years from now, will Toyota and BMW have a legendary relationship? Maybe, maybe not. The automotive world is a different place and continues to change. Money must be made, and the enthusiast market is ever-dwindling. A sad truth. In my gut, I don't see it being that type of relationship down the line, but who knows.

I strongly suspect I won't buy this car if I don't think there is a way to get a manual transmission installed. I hope that would be from the factory, but I would accept that I may have to do it myself.

The number of people who want a manual transmission and who are also willing to go order one is an ever-shrinking venn-diagram of sadness.

Reliability and some engineering principles aside, for myself, I've often considered BMW to be the "Toyota of Europe" and was very close to ordering an M235i about 2 years ago. It's actually a bit amusing to me, because I almost ordered it, but they wouldn't do a special order for cloth seats (which are offered from the factory for Canada-spec cars, but not by BMW Canada for sale), and so I decided to do the IS350 6MT setup in my Lexus. I don't regret that decision at all, but knowing that, and my history with Supras in particular, this car feels like it has a place in my life. Still: put a manual transmission in it!

Jeff

 

[Lexusisf]

Anyone else notice 3 pedals?

Yes and paddle shifters...

 

[SupraFiend]

Hey Jeff! Nice to see you here.

Lots of good points, but I think its pretty clear we are not going to get a real successor to the mk4. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Truth be told for most of the 2000s, I didn't want one. I wanted a successor to the mk2. Thats what Nissan did. The z32 TT was too expensive, too complex. The 350z and 370z have more in common with the original 240z and I felt Toyota should have done the exact same thing and missed a huge opportunity not putting out a similar v6 Supra in that era. The ironic thing was, the most interesting car made to me in the 2000s, and the one that tempted me away from Toyota the most was the Z4 M Coupe, the one based on the first gen Z4. 330hp NA inline 6, 6spd, swoopy hard top with duck bill and double bubble roof, plus a lot smaller and lighter, sign me up! And now we have this lol. Here's the part that's pissing me off the most. I've stayed true to Toyota for so long, hoping they would get their shit together and finally make me a car I could truly be proud of again, and what do they do, they sell us Subarus and BMWs. You know what I'm afraid of? Getting the new Supra and it being really good, really good because of BMW, and then walking away from new Toyotas for good. This could be a gateway drug to BMWs for many of us. And that's really dangerous IMO, Toyota should have bit the bullet and swallowed the dev costs and made this all in house. Halo cars aren't supposed to be for profit. The LFA was amazing, but completely irrelevant. Unattainable. They should have dumped their billions spent on the LFA in R&D into the mk5 like they did with the mk4 Supra or first gen LS400. The dev budgets were insane for those cars, not sure ever actually recouped it, but it didn't matter. The legend they created will live for ever, and its the reason my wife drives a Corolla and not 1 series. You'd think they would know all of this.

 

[Australian of The North]

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[dawsonj87]

*Edit - Im ranting but i really hope Toyota is reading this for market response purposes:*

For the most part I would agree.... We have all heard what Toyota and other manufactures would tell us " its ridiculously too expensive to a build a sports car today, let alone a fast one. No one wants to buy one anymore, we have to farm R&D out and share production, we cant take the financial risks/or cant afford to producer cars no one wants to buy"

However - don't let them tell you that total crap. Its simply Big business BS to avoid risks and keep profits safe and comfortable. Modern CEO's are all pussies worshiping the $, not the product. They wont take the risks anymore, and don't believe in their product. They choose to stay safe, stay boring, and stay profitable as the accountants would say.

Back in 93 Toyota took a catastrophically sized risk on mass production of the supra. It was INSANELY expensive and a massive leap ahead, plus a much bigger risk than the LFA program was just a few years back. The small number of LFA failures cost 100's of Millions, against a multip billion kitty to back it up. Had the supra failed, it would have been FAR far worse. Its failure could have destroyed Toyota as they literally banked/invested on it working, constructing whole plants, tooling and thousands of workers in multiple countries. Most legendary cars are the same - born on a risk it all/we believe in our product - attitude. Their companies often staked themselves on the car making or breaking -The real "Ride or Die".

Flash forward to today, and it why Toyota's range is boring - it is no risk. Its safe its boring, it sells. They cant fail, they have no R&D, are cheap to make, share global assembly lines and thus are highly profitable to sell. They don't need to believe in the product, the cars are like everything else on the essential transport market, - low risk, low investment, good return. Safe, Boring, Comfortable. Toyota make BILLIONS, its not a company struggling these days, even though it would like you to believe that.

Toyota should look to its fore bearers who commissioned the supra and grow a pair. Take the same Damn risk that first brought cars like GT40, E-type, the DB7 to life. Make the best damn product you can. Don't compromise and say "650 is what we want for the new supra, but 340 is more cost effective" - Bank everything on it like the legends of the past - believe in your product - Don't let the accountants tell you that its yield and ROI is "too low for production consideration". Instead make the product because its worth it. Take the risk, and just get sh#t done - That's is how legends are made.

If you don't take risks you end up with cars like the Camry, Avensis and the Prius. Good cars, but safe, boring, forgettable, and disposable, and ultimately what the brand has become.

Boom. Spot on.

 

[Lexusisf]

Agree with a lot of what you say, but don't lose sight of the fact there was no Lexus back then...Toyota was the brand...Today we hear they operate independently of each other for the most part, but I believe this was a factor in Toyota producing this version of the Supra...

 

[Jotokutora]

That is my understanding... I hope those that have hinted to seeing the production version in New York are correct!

Several outlets are reporting the production version will be a 2019 model going on sale before year-end 2018.

Fingers crossed!

So, is that is the case, can we start calling dealers and put deposits down?

 

[Jeff Lange]

Hey Jeff! Nice to see you here.

Ditto

Lots of good points, but I think its pretty clear we are not going to get a real successor to the mk4. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Truth be told for most of the 2000s, I didn't want one.

Ditto again, in fact I was of the (mistaken) belief for a very long time that Toyota would never bring the Supra back. To my knowledge they had never brought back a car like that (the MR2 Spyder doesn't count as it was just absent from the USA market for 4 years, but the MR2 was produced continuously from 1984 to 2007 elsewhere). I wish the 86 was manufactured by Toyota, even if they used a Subaru engine, and even if I consider Subaru to be similar to Toyota as they use similar suppliers for many components, but it's a good car. I wish Toyota had done this entire car themselves as well, I am happy with Toyota's engineering, I am familiar with Toyota's philosophies, I'm at home when driving and working on Toyotas. I don't think of this car is a successor to the Supra, it's really not the same car. The fact that it's a 2-seater is a big one for sure. It could, likely should, have another name instead of Supra. But the Supra has a legacy that will be untarnished by this new model. I'm interested in this car for what it is, not for what I thought a new Supra should be; I like what it is. Every car out there has people who like and don't like it for whatever reasons. I just hope that Toyota makes a great car with BMW, because I want a new sports car and Toyota and BMW are who I would look to in order to fill that hole in my automotive spectrum right now.

Back in 93 Toyota took a catastrophically sized risk on mass production of the supra. It was INSANELY expensive and a massive leap ahead,

In 1993, the Supra was $33,900 for the N/A and $39,900 for the Turbo. NSX's were selling for twice that, Corvettes were priced between the N/A and Turbo. The 300ZX was $30,500 for a base N/A and $37,700 for the Turbo. Sure it was a jump up from the 1992 Supra at $29,000 for the Turbo, but so was the performance.

I don't think the price point in 1993 was that insane at all.

Jeff

 

[Jotokutora]

Has only a few of us been watching bmw b58 engine milestones? It's an amazing engine tuning wise. The ecu seems to be difficult to hack which has halted progress beyond 600whp but a JB4 tune, extra fuel TBI, larger turbo, and air filter, you're looking at over 500~600whp. This is the tuning numbers coming out from the past year! If Toyota has their own ecu, well, it'll really open doors to those 9 second 1320 numbers.

The ECU can be hacked, but it needs to be taken out of the car and connect it to a machine to get it hacked. It usually cost 500$ to unlock it. Same thing with late n55 2012+ N55 ECU

 

[Jeff Lange]

The ECU can be hacked, but it needs to be taken out of the car and connect it to a machine to get it hacked. It usually cost 500$ to unlock it. Same thing with late n55 2012+ N55 ECU

Compared to buying a standalone for a 2JZ, that's a bargain.

Jeff

 

[PerformanceSound]

Oh well...back to work on my 2JZX project .

This is why Nissan has always been in the lead in terms of Japanese motorsports....their engineers and decision makers are motorsports enthusiasts and focus on that more than cutting costs. Not saying Nissan doesn’t find ways to improve budgets, but even the Z continues to be 100% JDM and 100% Nissan. The R35 GTR cost millions of dollars to R&D, and it’s doing pretty well....not losing money that’s for sure.

I will make my final decision on the MKV Supra when official drivetrain specs are out....for now, GTR is on top of my list.

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