Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

[Jeff Lange]

Well, they will continue to sell the GS for a while longer in other markets. It's just isn't being updated after this model.

Right, I was just saying that a low-selling vehicle that uses the same platform as other higher-selling vehicles having it's development killed won't necessarily kill development of the platform for other vehicles (in this case like the IS, Crown and Mark X).

Jeff

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[A70TTR]

I agree entirely.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

A70, I felt compelled to respond to your post about the demise of the GS. I think it would be better to for you to pm, but while there were utterances (I am ashamed they even got to that point anyways) of the GS leaving, I have reason to believe it's otherwise from another insider.

Yes, I can also agree with A70, an AWD model for the Lexus ES will be coming within the next year, hence the massive rear seat hump (larger than the past generation). It isn't going to be the dynamic car that we all want it to be but its something to remove the heaps amount of torque steer and the mess that's occurring with the front wheels (especially at that power rating).

As you may know, the 2018 Camry has constantly neutered the shit out of the car and dulled down everything. They also did something that made me probably want to explode to a billion pieces. The reason why the 2018 Camry is slightly slower (or faster) than the generation before, was because they neutered the shit out of the transmission and made the gear ratios stupidly long. The next part (please do not rage and flip your tables because its BAD), is you know the 301 horsepower that they're telling everyone it's making? Well the engine is a 301 horsepower engine, but it was discovered that Toyota cuts back a serious load of horsepower on their V6 engine when the driver wants to give a go on the gas pedal, and when I mean a serious load, I honestly can't remember off the top of my head but it was a serious percentage of the original 301 horsepower that is cut down. I saw a video of the car accelerating with an ECU tune to the transmission only and it is much faster (like 0.5, at least it felt and looked like it was able to go that much faster). Imagine it accelerating with full power settings to the engine as well. If they still kept it FWD (stubborn assholes) and had a differential in the back or made it with an AWD system (any of those options to the drivetrain). It would be an order of magnitude faster than the previous generation. Like Kia Stinger fast (4.9-5.0 Seconds). I honestly think what Toyota is doing right now is setting the Camry back by a good 1 second.

The reason why this bothers me, is what they're going to do for Toyota (and for Lexus ONLY FOR THE ES AND RX). There's only so much that you can do with a FWD drivetrain. The days for powerful FWD cars are numbered and Toyota will not go to lesser powerful cars. It will force them to be better like the glory days. This is also relevant to the Supra, because if they keep this sort of behaviour in development, then they're screwed full stop. I think it's smart to use the BMW engine as a template because they smartly won't spend a billion dollars on a new series inline-six engine, but after that they can make it completely their own without there being any problems. I hope they don't slack off. For Toyota and for Lexus' sake.

 

[A70TTR]

A lot of the issues are due to fuel economy regs unfortunately (specifically the long gears and bad response when not full WOT).

But yeah, they could still easily save the GS for the same reasons Jeff noted, but their has been no new development as far as I'm aware and I work around these folks. But hey things can change so... The US is also for sure the best market for the car and there are no plans I'm aware of to stop selling it atm, so if they wanted another iteration they could do so.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I know. But how much MPG would they be missing if they did that? 2, 3? Making these subtle changes would make it fight the Stinger. 2GR V6 is probably the most responsive V6 engine ever. They do so much with so little. Notice how I am not mentioning the Accord (it's main competitor), because at that point that car would be irrelevant.

 

[A70TTR]

I'm pretty sure it is indeed for like 2-3mpg. It's all priorities sadly, and as long as marketing can say 301hp they're happy.

I feel the same as you, and so do my other TMG compatriots. A few of which just messaged me on this subject actually (after they saw this discussion) haha.

 

[KahnBB6]

@Jeff Lange, apparently Toyota is doing another run of the Mark X GRMN (albeit updated) lol

A70, it looks like Toyota just announced the 2019 Mark X GRMN which again comes with the RA-62 manual This time they'll make 350 instead of a mere 100 according to this.

https://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-mark-x-grmn-is-the-badass-rear-wheel-drive-a-1831687768

We're getting a very very nice thing soon but I do wish we could also have this nice Toyota thing.

 

[Jeff Lange]

Not having looked into things too much, I think prefer the previous Mark X GRMN. Buy I'll give it another look over. It's a nice car, but I feel like they took a step backwards in a couple of areas, notably the interior and that it has less power than the earlier model.

Still, might make getting GRMN driveline components a bit easier for a bit longer. Can't complain about that.

Jeff

 

[Matador]

Well, they will continue to sell the GS for a while longer in other markets. It's just isn't being updated after this model.

Well.... that sucks.

 

[Supra93]

Well, they will continue to sell the GS for a while longer in other markets. It's just isn't being updated after this model.

An insider over at Lexusenthusiast has mention the same thing. I don't know if there is any truth behind this, but he also said the GS may return at a later date. Instead of a traditional sedan it may be a 4 door coupe to compete with the A7, CLS, and 6 series GC. And like the SC to LC, it may use a different nameplate and will only be a spiritual successor to the GS.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

What if BMW and Lexus teamed up to make the next 5 series and GS?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

^^ NO NO NO NO NO AND NO. The GS is the best handling sports sedan on the planet (shared with the Cadillac CTS) and every automotive media site has said this. I do not want any numb steering characteristics or shit chassis dynamics from the BMW. If they were to make the GS with the next 5 Series I am done being a Lexus fan. Simple as that.

 

[A70TTR]

An insider over at Lexusenthusiast has mention the same thing. I don't know if there is any truth behind this, but he also said the GS may return at a later date. Instead of a traditional sedan it may be a 4 door coupe to compete with the A7, CLS, and 6 series GC. And like the SC to LC, it may use a different nameplate and will only be a spiritual successor to the GS.

Very possible and sounds like something they might already be discussing honestly.

 

[kona61]

^^ NO NO NO NO NO AND NO. The GS is the best handling sports sedan on the planet (shared with the Cadillac CTS) and every automotive media site has said this. I do not want any numb steering characteristics or shit chassis dynamics from the BMW. If they were to make the GS with the next 5 Series I am done being a Lexus fan. Simple as that.

Hey, BMW does know how to build a damn fine car. From our recently departed M3 to the new F90 M5, they all drive very well. This is also coming from someone with experience with a track built FD RX-7 and E30 325i, Viper TA, 991.2 GT3, etc. Also currently have a 981 GT4.

 

[KahnBB6]

The nameplate "GS" just sounds good. I hope they keep it if they bring a 5-series RWD sedan competitor back. (Kind of like how "SC" also sounds good but perhaps I'm biased )

But I'd really like to see them pay homage to the original Aristo V300 lineage especially the version with the separate high beams and split tail lights from 1998-05 or so.

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