Video: 2020 Supra B58 Engine Teardown via Papadakis Racing

[PerformanceSound]

I imagine just replacing the rods with an upgrade would be the simplest path.

True....but more money.

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[tisdrew]

The intake manifold/water-to-air heat exchanger we all knew about already but I do wonder if welded aluminum aftermarket manifolds and front mount intercoolers will soon be common with these B58’s. The same probably is the case with the integrated manifold heat exchanger on the B58... but at what point does that plastic intake and exchanger become an efficiency bottleneck to making big power?

750+whp s55 cars run the stock heat exchanger. Switching from the oe w2a system to gods-forbid a cheap ebay intercooler will be a performance downgrade. For the upgraded w2a heat exchangers from companies like VRSF or CSF, there doesn't seem to be a need for short-burst activity like drag racing or dyno runs.

Further, I wonder if the plastic cylinder head cover would ever be an issue at very high power levels. Also I wonder if its complexity could ever be duplicated in custom aluminum welding. Probably an aftermarket aluminum casting or automated CNC machining might be the only foolproof way.... assuming it would ever be necessary in aluminum.

In the n54 community, we have 8/900whp on the plastic valve cover -- it's not a power or pressure issue. I believe the s55 cars over 800 are typically also on their stock plastic valve covers. All plastic with heatcycles will crack -- that being said, the only plastic valve covers I've seen crack are on neglected stock cars with high mileage. There are CNC aluminum options for n54 valve covers but it's mostly for engine bling and for "race" PCV systems. The stock n54 valve cover has PCV built right into it and is what the vast majority of the community go with/leave as-is.

 

[PerformanceSound]

750+whp s55 cars run the stock heat exchanger. Switching from the oe w2a system to gods-forbid a cheap ebay intercooler will be a performance downgrade. For the upgraded w2a heat exchangers from companies like VRSF or CSF, there doesn't seem to be a need for short-burst activity like drag racing or dyno runs.



In the n54 community, we have 8/900whp on the plastic valve cover -- it's not a power or pressure issue. I believe the s55 cars over 800 are typically also on their stock plastic valve covers. All plastic with heatcycles will crack -- that being said, the only plastic valve covers I've seen crack are on neglected stock cars with high mileage. There are CNC aluminum options for n54 valve covers but it's mostly for engine bling and for "race" PCV systems. The stock n54 valve cover has PCV built right into it and is what the vast majority of the community go with/leave as-is.

I too was worried about the plastic cover initially, it's the reason I am working on a CNC aluminum valve cover for the MKV Supra in Solid Works. I know the plastic covers can take alot of heat, but not sure it's limits. I was able to find a 3D scanned image of the valve cover, however, I think the dimensions are off. I need a real-life physical example to match up against to ensure the dimensions are on point. I plan on making a "throw-back" cover to the MKIV Supra's (aka "ONE-WAY SINGLE TURBO") valve cover.

 

[KahnBB6]

^^ tisdrew, thank you for expounding on those points. Very impressive that the factory BMW cooler/heat exchangers can handle that much boost efficiently! I'm completely new to their engines so this is good infor to learn from and orient myself with.

Same for the plastic valve covers, though the heat cycling over many years is what would concern me.

Performance, if you want to do that homage to the MKIV's valve cover but reflect what the current OEM turbo setup is like in the MKV I think it would be more accurate to say simply "3000 TWIN SCROLL TURBO" in the same font style as the MKIV TT top cover.

I do get a kick out of seeing those words "3000 TWO-WAY TWIN TURBO" every time I open my car's hood

But then there is so much extra stuff on top of this B58 engine's valve cover I'm not sure we could see it clearly The trend of these removable plastic vanity engine covers these days takes some of the fun out of the engine as a visual spectacle all on its own.

 

[PerformanceSound]

^^ tisdrew, thank you for expounding on those points. Very impressive that the factory BMW cooler/heat exchangers can handle that much boost efficiently! I'm completely new to their engines so this is good infor to learn from and orient myself with.

Same for the plastic valve covers, though the heat cycling over many years is what would concern me.

Performance, if you want to do that homage to the MKIV's valve cover but reflect what the current OEM turbo setup is like in the MKV I think it would be more accurate to say SIMPLY "3000 TWIN SCROLL TURBO" in the same font style as the MKIV TT top cover.

I do get a kick out of seeing those words "3000 TWO-WAY TWIN TURBO" every time I open my car's hood

But then there is so much extra stuff on top of this B58 engine's valve cover I'm not sure we could see it clearly The trend of these removable plastic vanity engine covers these days takes some of the fun out of the engine as a visual spectacle all on its own.

I like that, "3000 TWIN SCROLL TURBO." I might have to steal that from you if that ok? Lol.

My goal with the valve cover is to try and eliminate or at the very least relocate the "noodles" of lines and hoses on top of the valve cover. The end result may require the end-user to install longer or shorter length hoses and lines. I am also working with a local powder coating shop to offer textured paint (i.e., Ferrari valve covers, Honda valve covers, etc...) for the valve covers.

Btw, how is your Soarer build? I kind of miss my SC

 

[johnny_10196]

In exclusive interview, legendary racer tells us his plans for 1,000hp new Supra

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/paradais-racing-interview-plans-for-1000hp-new-supra/

 

[YungMercureal]

Sorry if this is too far off topic. What do you all think will be done to the engine to arrive at a GRMN model? I'm just curious as to what the value proposition would be for getting a GRMN later down the line vs. getting the 3.0 and upgrading that. The only major benefit off the bat that immediately comes to mind would just be more power from the factory under warranty.

I'm sure the GRMN would probably have other chassis refinements to give value, and we'll have to wait and see if the GRMN happens and what the price is to truly know the better value.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Good shit right herrrrrrr....

They will be replacing plugs soon and going for more power!

 

[KahnBB6]

I like that, "3000 TWIN SCROLL TURBO." I might have to steal that from you if that ok? Lol.

My goal with the valve cover is to try and eliminate or at the very least relocate the "noodles" of lines and hoses on top of the valve cover. The end result may require the end-user to install longer or shorter length hoses and lines. I am also working with a local powder coating shop to offer textured paint (i.e., Ferrari valve covers, Honda valve covers, etc...) for the valve covers.

Btw, how is your Soarer build? I kind of miss my SC

I'm fine with that! By all means, if you like the phrasing then go ahead and run with it

I like your goal to find ways to clean up the top of the engine and extend some wiring and hoses in order to make it more like a classic setup. The direct injection system alone might pose an issue though as well as there possibly being a need for small custom length pre-formed OE-spec hoses for tight spaces and tight connections. But those can be solved secondarily. It might be the basis for an entire kit?

Powder coating sounds great! That option is one of the best decisions I made when I had my JZ valve covers blasted for restoration-- getting them powder coated rather than having painted them. I opted for a very standard finish in the original gray hue that Toyota specified but of course the finish options are many when going this route.

......


I don't have a Z30 Soarer, just an SC as you once did And I miss seeing that build thread of yours as well with the Z32 waiting on its 2JZ VVT-i NA-T swap. That was a nice example!

It's doing well now after the initial kinks of the swap were worked out in January. I certainly learned a lot from the experience-- especially doing the electrical . The car has been back to daily driver status for a few months now. My newly rebuilt LSD diff is waiting to go back as soon as I get a chance and after that I just need to upgrade my SouthBend clutch to an OS Giken STR2CD twin plate to handle the torque from both turbos.

I still fully intend it as long term use daily driven all-rounder classic GT that can handily pass smog and go anywhere reasonably fast rather than pursue big power numbers on E85. Other than the chore of making it play nice with Cali smog testing my build's ultimate performance goals may not have been very high from the start but I'm nonetheless very happy with the result in a unique everyday classic car

 

[tisdrew]

Good shit right herrrrrrr....

They will be replacing plugs soon and going for more power!

Hopefully it's simply a plug issue and not an overall ignition issue. n54's seem to get a lot of spark blowout above 23 psi and us bigger power guys convert to mercury marine coils or audi motorsport coils for stronger spark.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I'm fine with that! By all means, if you like the phrasing then go ahead and run with it

I like your goal to find ways to clean up the top of the engine and extend some wiring and hoses in order to make it more like a classic setup. The direct injection system alone might pose an issue though as well as there possibly being a need for small custom length pre-formed OE-spec hoses for tight spaces and tight connections. But those can be solved secondarily. It might be the basis for an entire kit?

Powder coating sounds great! That option is one of the best decisions I made when I had my JZ valve covers blasted for restoration-- getting them powder coated rather than having painted them. I opted for a very standard finish in the original gray hue that Toyota specified but of course the finish options are many when going this route.

......


I don't have a Z30 Soarer, just an SC as you once did And I miss seeing that build thread of yours as well with the Z32 waiting on its 2JZ VVT-i NA-T swap. That was a nice example!

It's doing well now after the initial kinks of the swap were worked out in January. I certainly learned a lot from the experience-- especially doing the electrical . The car has been back to daily driver status for a few months now. My newly rebuilt LSD diff is waiting to go back as soon as I get a chance and after that I just need to upgrade my SouthBend clutch to an OS Giken STR2CD twin plate to handle the torque from both turbos.

I still fully intend it as long term use daily driven all-rounder classic GT that can handily pass smog and go anywhere reasonably fast rather than pursue big power numbers on E85. Other than the chore of making it play nice with Cali smog testing my build's ultimate performance goals may not have been very high from the start but I'm nonetheless very happy with the result in a unique everyday classic car

What LSD did you go with?

I miss my Z :-(. I got it pretty cheap and sold it a year later for shockingly more lol. In the end, I didn’t want to tear it apart because it was a clean example. A Z enthusiast ended up buying it, so hopefully to a good home and not some haggard future....but I miss that car.

The DI fuel pump shouldn’t be an issue, because I should be able to make provisions for it in the cover (i.e., K24 valve cover) with a plate cover to hide most of the pipes and coils. We’ll see how it shapes up.

 

[AHP]

Time to put your critical thinking caps on. Here is the exact quote:

Only the crankshaft is referenced.

In exclusive interview, legendary racer tells us his plans for 1,000hp new Supra

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/paradais-racing-interview-plans-for-1000hp-new-supra/

Based on our experience, we know that to get to 1,000 hp, we need to find ways to get a lot of air and fuel into the engine. So, we’ll do that with a larger turbocharger and a modified fuel system. And then we’ll need to make sure the engine is robust enough to handle all that extra power, so we’ll look at replacing the pistons and rods and modifying the valvetrain.

In other news... Rumor is there's at least one B58 down.

 

[KahnBB6]

What LSD did you go with?

Just the stock Torsen T-1 for now. It’s a '94 MKIV TT Automatic diff with the cooling fins. I had it rebuilt years ago with a 4.27:1 ratio for NA use. Now it’s back to it’s original 3.76:1 gearing which is perfect for the current setup. For how I use my SC it's all I really need. Later on I may consider upgrading to an OS Giken 1.5-way Super Lock. This Torsen should be good for another a solid 150k miles of longevity before it's worm and spur gears wear out and that's more than enough time to consider preemptive upgrade options.

I miss my Z :-(. I got it pretty cheap and sold it a year later for shockingly more lol. In the end, I didn’t want to tear it apart because it was a clean example. A Z enthusiast ended up buying it, so hopefully to a good home and not some haggard future....but I miss that car.

It's good that it went to a proper Z enthusiast who will be looking after it. I've had to part with a beloved car in the same way before and it's hard. You want to know that it will be looked after. Those Z32's can be a handful to maintain now but I sympathize with you-- they're really nice cars and I don't blame you for missing it. Never say never again?

The DI fuel pump shouldn’t be an issue, because I should be make provisions for it in the cover (i.e., K24 valve cover) with a plate cover to hide most of the pipes and coils. We’ll see how it shapes up.

Hmm. I'll have to see how the Honda K24 covers look if they have direct injection hardware to contend with as well. I'm interested to see what you come up with!

 

[KahnBB6]

In other news... Rumor is there's at least one B58 down.

Please do tell! Have any details on the circumstances been posted up anywhere?

 

[PerformanceSound]

Hmm. I'll have to see how the Honda K24 covers look if they have direct injection hardware to contend with as well. I'm interested to see what you come up with!

The K24 doesn’t have DI, I was using that as an example about the cover over the coil packs.

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