Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[Modal170]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and I am not sure if dropping the Lexus V35a in the Supra would have the same "outrage" as the bmw partnership. The GTR made the transition just fine. The V35a make more power and torque than the B58 and would be better for weight distribution, not to mention it's free since it's already done. After the car is released, I hope we can get a big picture explanation.

Lexus is missing out big time by not putting the V35a is the RC, LC, and GS variants if you ask me

Now, why not just use the V6 since they made it already? See this quote

"Tada-san said he and his team asked Supra fans around the world what they wanted in the MkV, and an overwhelming majority wanted a turbocharged inline-six. Interestingly, Tada-san says these same fans weren't pining for a manual gearbox, and while he wouldn't confirm it, he made it seem unlikely that the MkV would receive one."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...100/2019-toyota-supra-tetsuya-tada-interview/

Gotta give people what they want right? Besides,BMW engine is loved for the tuning provided and if Toyota really had Yamaha mess around with it so the characteristics are similar to the 2JZ, that's gonna be a fun engine, no matter what. .

Besides, Lexus isn't missing out by not using the V35. They have a better V6 to use anyway.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/19/toyota-hypercar-ts050-gr-super-sport/

I'm sure having the horsepower tuned 50, to 60 percent of that number will turn heads.

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[justbake]

Now, why not just use the V6 .since they made it already? See this quote

"Tada-san said he and his team asked Supra fans around the world what they wanted in the MkV, and an overwhelming majority wanted a turbocharged inline-six. Interestingly, Tada-san says these same fans weren't pining for a manual gearbox, and while he wouldn't confirm it, he made it seem unlikely that the MkV would receive one."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...100/2019-toyota-supra-tetsuya-tada-interview/

Gotta give people what they want right? Besides,BMW engine is loved for the tuning provided and if Toyota really had Yamaha mess around with it so the characteristics are similar to the 2JZ, that's gonna be a fun engine, no matter what. .

Besides, Lexus isn't missing out by not using the V35. They have a better V6 to use anyway.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/19/toyota-hypercar-ts050-gr-super-sport/

I'm sure having the horsepower tuned 50, to 60 percent of that number will turn heads.

Why they arent using the Lexus v6 in the supra is a rhetorical question, Tada has mentioned why several times. I just think it doesn't fit the rhetoric.

How does Gazoo Racing creating a hyper car have anything to do with my point of Lexus putting the V35a in their mass produced-production cars? Regardless of which turbo V6 they could put in their cars, besides the LS500, they aren't using either. Mind you I'm not talking about huge HP monsters, I'm referring to a stepping stone between their regular cars with ~300hp and the F cars for an additional $30k with ~470hp.

 

[Modal170]

Why they arent using the Lexus v6 in the supra is a rhetorical question, Tada has mentioned why several times. I just think it doesn't fit the rhetoric.

How does Gazoo Racing creating a hyper car have anything to do with my point of Lexus putting the V35a in their mass produced-production cars? Regardless of which turbo V6 they could put in their cars, besides the LS500, they aren't using either. Mind you I'm not talking about huge HP monsters, I'm referring to a stepping stone between their regular cars with ~300hp and the F cars for an additional $30k with ~470hp.

I was saying that it seems that we are going to see the engine in that hyper car trickling down to the regular cars in the Lexus line up without the hybrid setup. Toyota is doing fun things as of late and it seems this is one of them. As to how long we have to wait, let's try for late 2019, should be fun time for Toyota fans.

 

[justbake]

I was saying that it seems that we are going to see the engine in that hyper car trickling down to the regular cars in the Lexus line up without the hybrid setup. Toyota is doing fun things as of late and it seems this is one of them. As to how long we have to wait, let's try for late 2019, should be fun time for Toyota fans.

I understand that but they already have a twin turbo v6 without a hybrid (V35a) in the 2018 LS500, but its only in that car currently with no reports of it in other cars yet with 2019 models around the corner

 

[Modal170]

I understand that but they already have a twin turbo v6 without a hybrid (V35a) in the 2018 LS500, but its only in that car currently with no reports of it in other cars yet with 2019 models around the corner

Oh, I'm sure they are working on it. I think in 2020 when everything is getting refreshed and it's time to enter new engines into these platforms.

 

[justbake]

Oh, I'm sure they are working on it. I think in 2020 when everything is getting refreshed and it's time to enter new engines into these platforms.

But is everything getting refreshed though?
LC is still new and it didnt get the V35a even though it is on the same platform as the LS. It theoretically doesn't need it to be competitive though.
If they were putting it in the newly refreshed RC, 2019 would have been the year to do it but it doesn't look like it. This is the biggest missed opportunity in my book
It does make sense to wait for a model update on the GS in 2020, if it doesn't get discontinued. And with that being said, they never put the 1UR in the 4GS so who knows if they would make a higher output engine in the non-F GS lineup.

 

[adprokid]

Excitement level is 2 for three reasons:

1 Toyota took the cheap way out, they are milking the Supra name on a re bodied BMW.
2 Power figures similar to the 90s Corvette C5.
3 Automatic transmission.

 

[Modal170]

But is everything getting refreshed though?
LC is still new and it didnt get the V35a even though it is on the same platform as the LS. It theoretically doesn't need it to be competitive though.
If they were putting it in the newly refreshed RC, 2019 would have been the year to do it but it doesn't look like it. This is the biggest missed opportunity in my book
It does make sense to wait for a model update on the GS in 2020, if it doesn't get discontinued. And with that being said, they never put the 1UR in the 4GS so who knows if they would make a higher output engine in the non-F GS lineup.

LCF is coming out soon, look forward to that. Though, I think the V35 will not be used in that either.

Excitement level is 2 for three reasons:

1 Toyota took the cheap way out, they are milking the Supra name on a re bodied BMW.
2 Power figures similar to the 90s Corvette C5.
3 Automatic transmission.

1. Ehhhh
2. I see nothing wrong with that.
3. That's been discussed. Having a manual to handle the engine's power and potential power from mods would cause the price to hike up due to the exotic materials needed.

 

[HKz]

LCF is coming out soon, look forward to that. Though, I think the V35 will not be used in that either.



1. Ehhhh
2. I see nothing wrong with that.
3. That's been discussed. Having a manual to handle the engine's power and potential power from mods would cause the price to hike up due to the exotic materials needed.

apologist.

 

[justbake]

LCF is coming out soon, look forward to that. Though, I think the V35 will not be used in that either.

So what's your point in all of this?

Toyota/Lexus wants to be seen making exciting cars again, yet puts 10 year old Sienna motors (hyperbole) in all their non high-output cars.
They have yet to even make a clear distinction between the Camry and GS to the average car buyer. Oh you want a car will a little more power than the Camry? They have the Tundra, Supra, LS500, LC500, and GS/RC/LC F, none of which fit the role of the car buyer looking to find a regular car with a little more power. They will get a Stinger/Q70 and call it a day

 

[Modal170]

apologist.

Learned something new, I'll keep this in mind moving forward.

So what's your point in all of this?

Toyota/Lexus wants to be seen making exciting cars again, yet puts 10 year old Sienna motors (hyperbole) in all their non high-output cars.
They have yet to even make a clear distinction between the Camry and GS to the average car buyer. Oh you want a car will a little more power than the Camry? They have the Tundra, Supra, LS500, LC500, and GS/RC/LC F, none of which fit the role of the car buyer looking to find a regular car with a little more power. They will get a Stinger/Q70 and call it a day

Point is, the LCF might use something other than the V35A in the hood. Something more potent.

As for Toyota having a car with more power, not sure, as I can't recall something in their lineup having the power of a Q70 or a Kia while remaining a four dour vehicle. I don't' see them wanting to occupy that market as they are selling fine where they are right now. Also, they are milking as much money as they can from the previous engine to recoup the R&D cost and sharing across platforms. The V35A was just announced and slowly will be implemented. We just need to wait a little longer. .

 

[93Siro]

That's been discussed. Having a manual to handle the engine's power and potential power from mods would cause the price to hike up due to the exotic materials needed.

That is not true.
I’m a BMW guy and i know a thing or two about BMW tuning and aftermarket. Right now BMW is using 3 main transmissions.

1. Manual. ZF GS6 family, and in top tier models, GS6-45bz to be exact. This same transmission is used also in B58 (340i) S55 (M3) and S63tu(M5). People have not had much problems with this transmission, just needs upgraded clutch. On M5 it has to deal with 800 wtq! Not the smoothest shifting transmission in the world though.

2. DCT. Getrag unit. Pretty much needs clutch upgrades when you pass 500 wtq but can take a whole lot of abuse after receiving upgraded clutch pack. Have a weird tendency to eat mechatronics though.

3. Torque converter. ZF 8HP box. Now it gets tricky here. First let me tell you about the precedessor, the 6HP. It was available for the N54 and it’s a shitty transmission in terms of upgrades. No proven upgrades for these transmissions are availabe simply because the TCU is not cracked. Thats what is holding the N54 platform. Same is true for the 8HP. Now people have not yet reached the limit level of the transmission simply because it was not offered on the too performance models and the aftermarket wasn't strong but now that it’s offered in a performance product, limits will be known soon. But again, the TCU is not cracked and without TCU control we can’t up the transmission limits.

People seem to worry about the engine here, but i actually worry about the transmission.

 

[BRX]

Tada's excuse of "a manual should be expensive to feel good" isn't logical at all. T56/TR6060 anyone? I'm pretty sure they're cheaper than a ZF 8HP. It's simply demand and supply, auto outsells manual in that segment. If the car is a success maybe we'll see one in the future but for now I think people should just vote in the transmission voting thread, stop being in denial and hope for the best.

 

[Spilner]

Excitement level is 2 for three reasons:

1 Toyota took the cheap way out, they are milking the Supra name on a re bodied BMW.
2 Power figures similar to the 90s Corvette C5.
3 Automatic transmission.

1. Cheap in what sense?
2. Everyone considers that the best Corvette, so no arguments there
3. MK4 had it too

 

[justbake]

Point is, the LCF might use something other than the V35A in the hood. Something more potent.

As for Toyota having a car with more power, not sure, as I can't recall something in their lineup having the power of a Q70 or a Kia while remaining a four dour vehicle. I don't' see them wanting to occupy that market as they are selling fine where they are right now. Also, they are milking as much money as they can from the previous engine to recoup the R&D cost and sharing across platforms. The V35A was just announced and slowly will be implemented. We just need to wait a little longer. .

(I said Q70 but I meant G70, Infiniti and Genesis naming conventions are too similar lol)

While the LC-F may use a TT V8 or something in that nature, it doesn't strengthen the brand as a whole.

But they aren't doing well in that segment, the GS is in shambles and is set to be discontinued in Europe and potentially the rest of the world outside of Japan. The ES is now Europe's A6 and E Class competitor when 20 years ago the GS was the fastest sedan in the world and the ES was a fancy Camry. Mind you that the previous engine is 10 years old which is more than enough time to recoup R&D costs. The V35a was announced in the LS500 almost 2 years ago without even a rumor of it moving to other vehicles. While I understand that this doesn't happen overnight and that Toyota is usually late to the game, there is nothing that sets their non-performance cars apart from "just a fancy camry"

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